Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[KRas1014]

I originally posted this as its own thread, but didn't get any traffic so I figured maybe this would be the more appropriate place for it.

So as a backstory.. my tank is currently just under 5 months old. In hindsight, I am aware that I screwed up a bit in the beginning right after cycling by starting to dose NoPox and Vibrant and wasn't paying attention to my nutrient levels, just thought I was the lucky one that figured out how to avoid the ugly stage lol. When I did test, I found NO3 and PO4 to be at or near 0. At the end of July I started to get some brown "algae" growing on the sand and quickly spreading up the rocks. I started dosing Neophos and NeoNitro about 1.5 months ago and finally got NO3 to about 9ppm and PO4 to .06. The outbreak got pretty bad for a couple weeks and I have been removing as much as I can daily. I also have been running a 55W UV since after cycling but doesnt seem to be doing much. I was hoping this was just a case of the uglies with diatoms, but after I got my microscope today, it looks more like dino's. I am hoping someone can give me a positive ID on this and maybe give me some pointers on a plan of attack. Thanks in advance!

 

[KRas1014]

Alright so i have been doing some digging of my own trying to ID this organism and I am worried that it looks an awful lot like Ostreopsis, but maybe someone else with better knowledge can confirm. The strange this is that my snails and hermits all chomp away at this stuff from my rocks at night, and occasionally I will see my tangs picking at it from the sand and rocks during the day and not a single member of my CUC or fish has been lost during my 2.5 month encounter with this nasty stuff. Some acros are not very happy though...

 

[blackstallion]

I ran the Hydrogen Peroxide test on the strands you see on the back wall and no noticeable bubbles formed in the flask that weren't already there (as you see there are A LOT of bubbles forming in the tank). According to the thread, this is indicative of Dino's correct? I couldn't get any amount of slime off of that rock you see in the foreground to test, but I assume it's the same as what you see on the back wall.

Nitrates are 0 and Phosphates are very low as well, last tested at 0.02. Right now the tank is fallow for another couple weeks due to an outbreak I had last month. Once fish are back in, I expect Nitrates and Phosphates will go back up.

But in the mean time, what is the best course of action? Three day black out period? Dino X? Raise temperate to 82? Overskimming until I get rid of them?

Once I get them under control, dose Nitrates until fish naturally bring it back up? Underskim?

So a 3 day black out has nearly obliterated all the ugly...which I have to assume now was Dino's. I also raised temp to 80.5F.

How do I proceed from here though? Do I need to run carbon? There are no fish in the tank for at least another couple weeks, so would aggressive skimming do the trick with no Carbon?

I also purchased some Dino X. Do I hold off on using it or should I preempt any additional outbreak and dose Dino X?

 

[taricha]

Alright so i have been doing some digging of my own trying to ID this organism and I am worried that it looks an awful lot like Ostreopsis, but maybe someone else with better knowledge can confirm. The strange this is that my snails and hermits all chomp away at this stuff from my rocks at night, and occasionally I will see my tangs picking at it from the sand and rocks during the day and not a single member of my CUC or fish has been lost during my 2.5 month encounter with this nasty stuff. Some acros are not very happy though...

The small amount of ostreopsis I have had in my tank were also low toxin. It is possible. Researchers have found even the same population can become more or non toxic depending on nutrients and bacterial associates.

 

[Aaron Shapiro]

Hey all,

Just IDed my Dinos:

I believe these are prorocentrum -- Going to start dosing silicates, any other suggestions? My nutrients haven't really ever bottomed out so I'm not entirely sure what the cause may have been.

 

[taricha]

I believe these are prorocentrum

Beautiful pics of prorocentrum.
Today I learned that the pyrenoid is not a ring, but is a 3d cylinder that runs the full thickness of the cell.

 

[Aaron Shapiro]

Beautiful pics of prorocentrum.
Today I learned that the pyrenoid is not a ring, but is a 3d cylinder that runs the full thickness of the cell.

Yeah a member of my local club bought a really nice microscope to use with his farm animals (alpaca and the like) he offered to look at a sample for me.

hopefully sparking a diatom bloom will take care of these guys. Started water glass today.

 

[Kongar]

Just need to vent. Battling dinos sucks so bad. I wish I had started with live rock because it's the only reason I can think of that has led to this issue. So frustrating. Raising my glass to all the people in this thread fighting these little monsters.

 

[OpenOcean33]

Okay, guys, I am back on the forums looking for help. I have been battling dinos for 2+ years. I have been cycling between dino outbreak and cyano outbreak. I get one and the other disappears and this has been going on for 2 years. I thought after a while i could balance it out but it dosent seem to be working. Any suggestions on what i could do next?

 

[Kongar]

Question:

I have an AIO 20 gal. So with no sump, I can't do the "siphon through a filter sock into the sump" thing. What's the consensus on stirring my sand up with an acrylic rod - vigorously, so that they enter the water column. Then I can catch them with the filter floss in the first chamber, and then replace that floss an hour or two after stirring things up? Edit - I should note that I do regularly stir my sand to the bottom, so I'm not worried about a neglected sand bed releasing a bunch of toxics into the water column.

The dinos are now so bad they are choking off my corals, and I've got to get more aggressive with them as they are covering all my rock, corals, and walls. Definitely beat the LA dinos the first time around, but they were just replaced with a different type (brown snot with bubbles). I'll have a microscope ID tonight to figure out which new version I'm dealing with.
But I'd still like your thoughts on how to handle the sand with an AIO.

 

[attiland]

Question:

I have an AIO 20 gal. So with no sump, I can't do the "siphon through a filter sock into the sump" thing. What's the consensus on stirring my sand up with an acrylic rod - vigorously, so that they enter the water column. Then I can catch them with the filter floss in the first chamber, and then replace that floss an hour or two after stirring things up? Edit - I should note that I do regularly stir my sand to the bottom, so I'm not worried about a neglected sand bed releasing a bunch of toxics into the water column.

The dinos are now so bad they are choking off my corals, and I've got to get more aggressive with them as they are covering all my rock, corals, and walls. Definitely beat the LA dinos the first time around, but they were just replaced with a different type (brown snot with bubbles). I'll have a microscope ID tonight to figure out which new version I'm dealing with.
But I'd still like your thoughts on how to handle the sand with an AIO.

I wouldn’t touch the sand before have any ID. With some type you make it worse than it was before.

As per the siphoning I would invest into a small pump you can attach a pipe both end. 150-250lph more than enough for this. With some models you may need a 12v power supply too. On eBay these are £10-20

 

[Kongar]

ID Please?

Video
Prorocentrum?

Video
Or is it Ostreopsis?

Pic

Not a lot of movement under the scope. Clear center circle (pics don’t do it justice) on many. Some don't seem to have the center circle, but rather two circular "eyes." Neither type is seed shaped or moves like ostreopsis. I need help please

High mucus in the tank, very toxic, and killing everything. Smells. Covering everything. Brown snot that gets long strings at the end of the day - usually a single bubble on the end of the string. Does not look like, or act like the LA dinos I had before.

If I’m correct with either ID, OR if I have BOTH, install UV, hit them with a blackout for three days? Keep nutrients up, run extra carbon for the toxins?

Thanks for the help - dinos suck!

 

[Chiz]

Can I get a bit of help?

Ive just set up a new tank. NO3 and PO4 are hovering around 0. I’ve turned off the Rowaphos and reduced the refugium from 12 hours to 3 hours although I only have a tiny ball of cheato in there.

I think I’ve got a mixture of hair algae, a few diatoms and dino. what course of action do I take? Do I need to tackle the dino first and how?

1st picture is what the sand bed is like where’s there’s light.
2nd picture is what it looks like under the microscope.
3rd picture is green type dust scraped off the glass.

 

[bgautrea]

I feel like everything is starting to look pretty much the same, but can anyone confirm that this is prorocentrum? If so, the course of action should be something along the lines of:

1) increase NO3 (aprx 10ppm) and PO4 (aprx 0.1ppm)
2) increase silicate (not sure the target dose though)
3) UV at night after lights out?

The last pic was just fun to see... guessing its a juvenile bristleworm?

 

[joshwaggs]

Hey all,

Just IDed my Dinos:

I believe these are prorocentrum -- Going to start dosing silicates, any other suggestions? My nutrients haven't really ever bottomed out so I'm not entirely sure what the cause may have been.

What kind of microscope do you have. That picture is really good.

 

[joshwaggs]

I have been dosing polyplab one in a tank that is only about 6 months old. I didnt think about the fact that dosing polyplab one is like dosing carbon. Two weeks later the nitrates and phosphates are at or near zero. Now all I do is wonder if Im going to get Dinos. I have been dosing PNS Probio for a few weeks to add some biodiversity and there is a decent amount of pods. Maybe those will scare the dinos off?

 

[Stephers]

Ive had small cell amphidinum for nearly two years now. It just wont go away. I nearly got rid of it, seemingly, a few months ago but it's come back full strength. This time however im noticing something odd. There are huge sections of small cell that arent moving. And boy do they normally love to move. Theyre mixed in witj derbesia and cyano. Ive had a large UV on for a while and i'm dosing silicates.

But any idea what these large nonmoving sections might be? Dead? or am I not so lucky? There are only 2 or 3 showing any movement at all out of all those dinos in these pictures....

 

[jlee]

I'm near the end of my rope and I'm hoping I can get some help here. I got my first dino outbreak about 4 months ago, bought a microscope and identified Ostreopsis. The outbreak was BAD. I bought a UV light, some PO4 and some N03 to dose, and turned off my skimmer. I ran the UV 24/7, upped the P04 to ~.2ppm, N03 to 10-20 (it was hard to tell with my test) and it was working. I could see my sand!
Out of nowhere, I started getting bubbles all over my glass and mats of thick mucous-y dinos all over my sandbed, rocks, coral skeletons. The bubbles themselves go away when the lights are off each night. By about 2 hours into lights-on they're all back

I do have some green algae and what looks like red cyano growing but it's being outpaced by the snot.

When this started happening I started dosing my P04 and N03 higher, right now I'm sitting at about .03ppm and 30ppm. I have no idea what to do anymore. It's so bad I cant even see some of my rocks anymore. I'm willing to do any last-ditch extreme measures before I toss in the towel.

 

[joshwaggs]

Did you try Vibrant yet?

 

[jlee]

Did you try Vibrant yet?

I have not. I will admit I didn't read through the 400+ pages but followed the standard treatment for ostreopsis laid out in a few different guides. Just a brief search in this thread for Vibrant shows that Vibrant is a bad idea. Did it work for you?