Dinoflagellates and NO3 and PO4. Why do I have to worry now?

[reefwiser]

Yes problems have always been part of the hobby. [emoji3] We are keeping a small eco system in a small container. Maintaining a balance is a major part of this hobby.

 

[Ashish Patel]

Yes problems have always been part of the hobby. [emoji3] We are keeping a small eco system in a small container. Maintaining a balance is a major part of this hobby.

Yes, Most things where more prevalent back then since everything was cultured from the wild. With the exception of Dinos I think they operate like any algaes they just appear. Forum now give us a place to do a quick search and the free help and advice is always welcome

 

[revhtree]

I’m losing the battle.....

Last week it finally started going away. I had been feeding VERY heavy like never before. My frag tank, which is plumbed with the main, started growing hair algae big time and the Dino’s started receding.

I am not sure if I caused this but I decided to use Reef HD to get rid of the algae in the frag tank and two days later the dino is back in epic proportions.

I seriously want to tear it all down. Yes I’m whining....

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I’m losing the battle.....

Last week it finally started going away. I had been feeding VERY heavy like never before. My frag tank, which is plumbed with the main, started growing hair algae big time and the Dino’s started receding.

I am not sure if I caused this but I decided to use Reef HD to get rid of the algae in the frag tank and two days later the dino is back in epic proportions.

I seriously want to tear it all down. Yes I’m whining....

One small can of Fiji Mud. $20
Really , what have ya got to lose.

 

[revhtree]

One small can of Fiji Mud. $20
Really , what have ya got to lose.

Did I miss something you posted about the mud? I will try anything at this point. It’s been kicking my big for more than 6 months now.

 

[revhtree]

One small can of Fiji Mud. $20
Really , what have ya got to lose.

Let me know what you’re referring to!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Did I miss something you posted about the mud? I will try anything at this point. It’s been kicking my big for more than 6 months now.

I wasn’t sure if you’d seen the bio diversity and huge root causes of cyano recently.
Basic theory , a single organism is dominating the bio sphere as it easily out competes the few others including nitrifying bacteria (in dry Rock tanks) and becomes dominant using al the available nutrients. By adding several other organisms , they work in combination to compete the dominant strain for resources and nutrients.

The extras feeding is the attempt to build the bio filter and let that compete , but this is like hiring allies in the war.

Reeferoxx May have solved her cyano prob with it.

And worst case , I got a half dozen new colors of corraline when I first used it. It’s quite literally mud that Walt scooped from the reef.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Let me know what you’re referring to!

Forgot the link. Doh!
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/fiji-mud-refugium-starter-walt-smith.html

I mixed mine into the sand when I cycled my my tanks. But you can just stir it in anywhere really. Ya don’t need to lay down a full Refugium bed.

 

[revhtree]

I wasn’t sure if you’d seen the bio diversity and huge root causes of cyano recently.
Basic theory , a single organism is dominating the bio sphere as it easily out competes the few others including nitrifying bacteria (in dry Rock tanks) and becomes dominant using al the available nutrients. By adding several other organisms , they work in combination to compete the dominant strain for resources and nutrients.

The extras feeding is the attempt to build the bio filter and let that compete , but this is like hiring allies in the war.

Reeferoxx May have solved her cyano prob with it.

And worst case , I got a half dozen new colors of corraline when I first used it. It’s quite literally mud that Walt scooped from the reef.

Where are you getting it and how much would you recommend? I have a refugium I could add it to!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Where are you getting it and how much would you recommend? I have a refugium I could add it to!

I got mine local actually. But BRS and dr F&S should have the small can. Amazon does from time to time.

 

[Brew12]

I got mine local actually. But BRS and dr F&S should have the small can. Amazon does from time to time.

BRS has the small and large buckets. I purchased the larger bucket recently for my new build

 

[revhtree]

Do you have a reference for where @reeferfoxx was/is using it?

 

[Pmj]

N & P helps, UV helps, flow helps, blackouts help. IMO it takes a while for the tank to finally get over the hump though. For months I had them pretty much beat, detectable nutrients and other algaes growing in small amounts. Corals growing well too, but the problem is one strand of dinos (in an otherwise clean tank) gets on an acro and it starts losing flesh there, and dinos love to stick on that exposed part, which causes more flesh loss. Anyway my last 72 hr blackout two weeks ago seems to have gotten it fully beaten, tank has never been cleaner. Hopefully it stays that way. I also used pods, phyto and Dr. Tims waste-away. Some of those may have contributed as well.

It's definitely not just being exposed to dinos though. I could freely take a frag from my main tank and put it in my other tank and the dinos would be gone.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Do you have a reference for where @reeferfoxx was/is using it?

I broadcast my fiji mud. I mix half a tablespoon into tank water, mix it, filter out the large chunks, and broadcast into the water column.

I also see you had some hair algae and reacted with reef flux hd? Tsk tsk. Hair algae is a friend. It helps feed micro fauna and give refuge. With my hair algae, my tank grew a lot of beneficial herbivore isopods.

Rev, I think you need to let the tank sit. If hair algae is "growing" let it grow and stop dosing nutrients. Let the tank sit for a month. Only feed it. Don't over feed. Let the nutrients naturally fall. Only run the skimmer and UV. If you have an itch to dose something, dose some dr. Tims one and only or biospira. Only the good bacteria. Dose some fiji mud and give it time.

I did this and I started noticing improvements at 2 weeks. Then even more improvement the following week.

Sept. 28th 2017 - hair algae and dino


After letting the tank sit for a month it got better.


The hair algae started sluffing off and dino started releasing organic carbons causing cyano. Most likely from die off. So now was a good time to add GAC and clean the tank.

Nov 12th. 2017


Nov. 26th 2017

Still no dinos. Tank is riding smooth through December.

But wait.... Cyano Jan. 4th 2018


Dont freak out at this point and dump a ton chemiclean and cyano rx. Just let it grow Wait for the gas bubbles to build up under the mats. Then siphon the mats out. Oh and dont forget to dose some fiji mud.

Jan. 14th 2018


Dont forget the mud lol


Jan 29th 2018


Feb 11th 2018




Once the dinos are gone, you have to treat the tank like its day after the cycle. Let it mature with limited intervention. Must have patience

 

[Ashish Patel]

Good advice reeferfoxx!!!

 

[Paullawr]

Do you have a reference for where @reeferfoxx was/is using it?

Rev did you identify which type you had.

As opposed heavy feeding the best strategy is simply to dose N and P ie from potassium nitrate or sodium phosphate to raise levels then keep them there.

Its not a quick win though this takes time. In some cases several months.
The most success is where these levels are maintained going forward.

If you have a dinoflagellate strain that likes to hang around in the water column then buying a large UV will help turn the tide.

If it's a sand dweller then you need to look at removing all or portions of sand. Leaving it out or at very least rinsing in fresh water. This will be a staged approach along with maintain nutrient levels.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Rev did you identify which type you had.

As opposed heavy feeding the best strategy is simply to dose N and P ie from potassium nitrate or sodium phosphate to raise levels then keep them there.

Its not a quick win though this takes time. In some cases several months.
The most success is where these levels are maintained going forward.

If you have a dinoflagellate strain that likes to hang around in the water column then buying a large UV will help turn the tide.

If it's a sand dweller then you need to look at removing all or portions of sand. Leaving it out or at very least rinsing in fresh water. This will be a staged approach along with maintain nutrient levels.

Hey Paul. I think he has already replaced his sand. In regards to dino ID. He posted some good microscope shots on the big dino thread. Maybe you can help with ID? Im not the best but it did look like at least 2 or possibly 3 different types. One of them might have been coolia.

 

[Denisk]

So I went through Dino’s and I may have had them in the past but this time was by far the worst. Didn’t go away with just dosing no3 and p04.

I’ve kept Reef tanks for quite some time and have always done it the KISS method.

However when setting up my new reefer 350. I thought maybe I’ll splurge a little and go the route I never really could afford until now. I decided to listen to the hype! (not blaming anyone here but just saying these suggestions didn’t work for me) People said get the BIGGEST SKIMMER you can afford, get a refugium with a kessil light and etc...

What a mistake!

I had a vertex 180i on my system with a ton of fish. I had a refugium going and grew like crazy the first 3 weeks. But then, BAM!!! What do I get? HUGE outbreak of Dino.

I decided to get all the help I could from the forum and which I did. I love this forum and aren’t sure where I would be without it! I just had to tweak some of the suggestions for me to get rid of the Dino.

The right sized UV with the right flow and the sand removal was what immediately got rid of the Dino for me.

I also got rid of the oversized skimmer and the refugium. I went with a properly sized skimmer and am currently using a curve 5. All I had to do was start with feedings slow and continue to check my parameters and realized that a pinch of flake food in the morning and a tiny sheet of Nori keep my fish healthy, well fed and most of all keeps my nutrients in check. Nitrates hover at 4 to 7ppm and and po4 around .03ppm.

I’m Dino free and don’t have to worry about it because I no longer have to think about that my oversized skimmer and or refugium stripping all the nutrients out of the water column. I also don’t have the uv running anymore. I let it run for an extra month but then took it off.

*Now I know people say well cant I just feed more and the skimmer and refugium would be able to keep up. I tried and I feel like there is some sort of imbalance that my non biology degree can answer*

I hope this can help some people and please if anyone reads this and needs any help. Don’t hesitate, I love helping!

 

[Paullawr]

So I went through Dino’s and I may have had them in the past but this time was by far the worst. Didn’t go away with just dosing no3 and p04.

I’ve kept Reef tanks for quite some time and have always done it the KISS method.

However when setting up my new reefer 350. I thought maybe I’ll splurge a little and go the route I never really could afford until now. I decided to listen to the hype! (not blaming anyone here but just saying these suggestions didn’t work for me) People said get the BIGGEST SKIMMER you can afford, get a refugium with a kessil light and etc...

What a mistake!

I had a vertex 180i on my system with a ton of fish. I had a refugium going and grew like crazy the first 3 weeks. But then, BAM!!! What do I get? HUGE outbreak of Dino.

I decided to get all the help I could from the forum and which I did. I love this forum and aren’t sure where I would be without it! I just had to tweak some of the suggestions for me to get rid of the Dino.

The right sized UV with the right flow and the sand removal was what immediately got rid of the Dino for me.

I also got rid of the oversized skimmer and the refugium. I went with a properly sized skimmer and am currently using a curve 5. All I had to do was start with feedings slow and continue to check my parameters and realized that a pinch of flake food in the morning and a tiny sheet of Nori keep my fish healthy, well fed and most of all keeps my nutrients in check. Nitrates hover at 4 to 7ppm and and po4 around .03ppm.

I’m Dino free and don’t have to worry about it because I no longer have to think about that my oversized skimmer and or refugium stripping all the nutrients out of the water column. I also don’t have the uv running anymore. I let it run for an extra month but then took it off.

*Now I know people say well cant I just feed more and the skimmer and refugium would be able to keep up. I tried and I feel like there is some sort of imbalance that my non biology degree can answer*

I hope this can help some people and please if anyone reads this and needs any help. Don’t hesitate, I love helping!

UV only works on strains that move in to the water column.

Buying one because you have dinos is a gamble and an expense we can all. Do without if it doesn't bring anything to the table. Remember UV is an indiscriminate killer.
When we have UV that will work against our protist then we overlook all the other organisms its going irradiate.
No point doing that if it's not going to be successful.

Skimmer will pull in doc and no doubt some Dinos but is far far far from a cure.

 

[Denisk]

UV only works on strains that move in to the water column.

Buying one because you have dinos is a gamble and an expense we can all. Do without if it doesn't bring anything to the table. Remember UV is an indiscriminate killer.
When we have UV that will work against our protist then we overlook all the other organisms its going irradiate.
No point doing that if it's not going to be successful.

Skimmer will pull in doc and no doubt some Dinos but is far far far from a cure.

No I completely agree with you. I should have been a little more detailed with this post as I have it on a separate topic. But for me in particular after comparing the sample of Dino under a microscope and confirming it was a ostreopsis. Which is where the UV came into play for me.

I don’t believe I also said anywhere that the skimmer had anything to do with the removal of the Dino itself. Just sharing my overal process.

Either way, it worked for me so I’m glad!