Dinoflagellates and NO3 and PO4. Why do I have to worry now?

[reeferfoxx]

Keep in mind, we can always help suspend dinos into the water column. Just takes a turkey baster and some elbo grease. Best time to do is right before lights off and when lights come on and really any time in between if you have the time. Even a slight reduction in this manor will help competitors.

 

[Paullawr]

Hey Paul. I think he has already replaced his sand. In regards to dino ID. He posted some good microscope shots on the big dino thread. Maybe you can help with ID? Im not the best but it did look like at least 2 or possibly 3 different types. One of them might have been coolia.

OK replacing sand when you have dinos is lie staring over and putting back in new tank what you took out of old!

Rev you might own this place but listen hard quick wins won't work this evil.

Dose N and P.
Get your nitrate between 2 and 5 ppm.

Phosphate get it around 0.3 to 0.5ppm

Keep it there (for at least six months after they have gone).

Though between you and I maybe a forever thing.

DON'T DO THE RESTART SYSTEM. IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!!
Been there got several dino stained t shirts.

If you have more than one attain might well be worth a good UV.

Replacing sand won't cut it if you have more than one. Most will very dominate in water column. When you replace sand only the cysts will idle on a sandbed.

The Fiji mud isn't a bad shot. If it doesn't deal with dinos it's got benefits elsewhere and quite frankly the rest of the stressed organisms could probably do with a perk up.

I'm still in the undecided camp on what nutrients do to them. I don't personally think it causes. Out completion.
If it did someone on here by now would have photographic evidence of these so called competitors feasting on them.
Photos anyone?

I actually think a dino bloom is in response to stress factors. Ie low
Nutrients rather than a niche in the environment.

Anyway GHA keep it. Better than dinos and will allow for zooplankton to thrive.

 

[Paullawr]

No I completely agree with you. I should have been a little more detailed with this post as I have it on a separate topic. But for me in particular after comparing the sample of Dino under a microscope and confirming it was a ostreopsis. Which is where the UV came into play for me.

I don’t believe I also said anywhere that the skimmer had anything to do with the removal of the Dino itself. Just sharing my overal process.

Either way, it worked for me so I’m glad!

Sorry I misread oversize skimmer

 

[Paullawr]

No I completely agree with you. I should have been a little more detailed with this post as I have it on a separate topic. But for me in particular after comparing the sample of Dino under a microscope and confirming it was a ostreopsis. Which is where the UV came into play for me.

I don’t believe I also said anywhere that the skimmer had anything to do with the removal of the Dino itself. Just sharing my overal process.

Either way, it worked for me so I’m glad!

And glad your dino free

 

[Denisk]

And glad your dino free

Thank you! I appreciate it!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

OK replacing sand when you have dinos is lie staring over and putting back in new tank what you took out of old!

Rev you might own this place but listen hard quick wins won't work this evil.

Dose N and P.
Get your nitrate between 2 and 5 ppm.

Phosphate get it around 0.3 to 0.5ppm

Keep it there (for at least six months after they have gone).

Though between you and I maybe a forever thing.

DON'T DO THE RESTART SYSTEM. IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!!
Been there got several dino stained t shirts.

If you have more than one attain might well be worth a good UV.

Replacing sand won't cut it if you have more than one. Most will very dominate in water column. When you replace sand only the cysts will idle on a sandbed.

The Fiji mud isn't a bad shot. If it doesn't deal with dinos it's got benefits elsewhere and quite frankly the rest of the stressed organisms could probably do with a perk up.

I'm still in the undecided camp on what nutrients do to them. I don't personally think it causes. Out completion.
If it did someone on here by now would have photographic evidence of these so called competitors feasting on them.
Photos anyone?

I actually think a dino bloom is in response to stress factors. Ie low
Nutrients rather than a niche in the environment.

Anyway GHA keep it. Better than dinos and will allow for zooplankton to thrive.

No, no pictures but I’m still wondering why after all these years I’ve never gotten Dino’s.
Felling a bit left out really.

No qt, lame dips , stuff from the ocean, actual unfiltered sea water, coral and rock that’s been in country for 2 hrs.
Kinda odd in one way of thinking. I “should “ have gotten everything.

But on the bright side , the new oysters I got from the grocery store are acclimating well.

 

[Paullawr]

No, no pictures but I’m still wondering why after all these years I’ve never gotten Dino’s.
Felling a bit left out really.

No qt, lame dips , stuff from the ocean, actual unfiltered sea water, coral and rock that’s been in country for 2 hrs.
Kinda odd in one way of thinking. I “should “ have gotten everything.

But on the bright side , the new oysters I got from the grocery store are acclimating well.

To be fair that's the reason you didn't. @Paul B would give a similar story.

The problem most have is they are too clean.

Look, bleach is great, kills stuff. Eventually what it kills becomes immune. We start to die.

Morbid I know however that's what many are doing on a smaller scale.

Thing is the clean eco system is from literature, we are all reading to do the right think for our slice of the sea.

Its needs updating to compensate with bacteria, additives and insanely effective equipment.

 

[Paullawr]

No, no pictures but I’m still wondering why after all these years I’ve never gotten Dino’s.
Felling a bit left out really.

No qt, lame dips , stuff from the ocean, actual unfiltered sea water, coral and rock that’s been in country for 2 hrs.
Kinda odd in one way of thinking. I “should “ have gotten everything.

But on the bright side , the new oysters I got from the grocery store are acclimating well.

Oh and to be honest my good man, dips do diddly squat.

You have them, do some Microscope tests of anything bubble, stringy or just in sand bed. You will find them.

The difference between having them and having them is the bloom.

Its the kick-starter to the bloom that's the issue.

 

[Paullawr]

Do you have a reference for where @reeferfoxx was/is using it?

Rev do me a favour boss, can you put some pics of your nemesis on here. Vids if you have the ability to do so.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Oh and to be honest my good man, dips do diddly squat.

You have them, do some Microscope tests of anything bubble, stringy or just in sand bed. You will find them.

The difference between having them and having them is the bloom.

Its the kick-starter to the bloom that's the issue.

Oh trust me, I know. Everybody has Dino’s cyano and every other “bad” thing.

Its really why in any dino thread(and trust me that’s been a LOT) , I don’t care what strain it is , I look at the whole health picture of the tank.
The “cure “will generally be the same.

Fix possible nutint limitation that restricts other organisms, manual removal of pest organizim, introduce competing organisms.

 

[Brew12]

Oh trust me, I know. Everybody has Dino’s cyano and every other “bad” thing.

Its really why in any dino thread(and trust me that’s been a LOT) , I don’t care what strain it is , I look at the whole health picture of the tank.
The “cure “will generally be the same.

Fix possible nutint limitation that restricts other organisms, manual removal of pest organizim, introduce competing organisms.

+1 on this.

The only thing I would add is that the common recommendation of "heavy feeding" isn't always good advice. If your dino's are caused by a low PO4 issue, feeding food low in PO4 isn't going to fix it.
One advantage of feeding more natural foods is that you add nutrients in a more balanced manner. If you are feeding highly processed flakes or pellets, you may not get a natural ratio of nutrients which can lead to detrimental limitations.

 

[cracker]

Great read Folks Thank You.

 

[taricha]

+1 on this.

The only thing I would add is that the common recommendation of "heavy feeding" isn't always good advice. If your dino's are caused by a low PO4 issue, feeding food low in PO4 isn't going to fix it.
One advantage of feeding more natural foods is that you add nutrients in a more balanced manner. If you are feeding highly processed flakes or pellets, you may not get a natural ratio of nutrients which can lead to detrimental limitations.

I'd go further, "Heavy feeding" rarely solves a nutrient issue.
But there are available foods that have very different ratios of P and N and this can be used to the hobbyist advantage to balance things.
flake foods with "fish bone meal" or "fish meal" as first ingredients - which is most of them - tend to have high P to N ratios, and mysis and shrimp have very low P - according to this fantastic article.
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'd go further, "Heavy feeding" rarely solves a nutrient issue.
But there are available foods that have very different ratios of P and N and this can be used to the hobbyist advantage to balance things.
flake foods with "fish bone meal" or "fish meal" as first ingredients - which is most of them - tend to have high P to N ratios, and mysis and shrimp have very low P - according to this fantastic article.
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

Heavy feeding is pretty effective to raise nutrients around my house.

I have a coral qt that I have to remember to toss a cube of food in. Or it’ll kill Xenia.

 

[J Rog]

I wrote this on the big Dino Thread but I got a cheap UV from petco out of desperation.. a 24 watt “Green Killing Machine”. the Dino’s were taking over fast. I tried dosing Hydrogen Peroxide which seemed to hold them at bay for about a week. But it’s almost like they adapted to it and they just started to take over again. I tried that for like 2 or 3 weeks. At the same time I was also dosing N03 and P04 being that both we’re undetectable. But the process was working slower then the Dino’s spreading.. So I got this cheap UV and figured what do I have to loose.. 48 hours of having it installed there was a Drastic improvement. Now about 2 and a half weeks after installing I don’t see any Dino’s. I see way more coralline algae growing due to dosing nutrients I’m sure. But I feel so much better about my system.. Dino’s is an absolute nightmare.. I see why some tear down there tanks. When it takes over the tank looks like a mess. I strongly suggest using a UV to anyone battling these things. And like I said, I didn’t buy the $400 one that’s suppose to be for my size tank. I went to petco and bought an $80 cheapo and it saved my tank.. of course combined with getting my nutrients up.

 

[d2mini]

I’m losing the battle.....

Last week it finally started going away. I had been feeding VERY heavy like never before. My frag tank, which is plumbed with the main, started growing hair algae big time and the Dino’s started receding.

I am not sure if I caused this but I decided to use Reef HD to get rid of the algae in the frag tank and two days later the dino is back in epic proportions.

I seriously want to tear it all down. Yes I’m whining....

Wait.... wut?! Is this with your NEW rock? I thought you had dinos with the old rock?

 

[Ashish Patel]

UV will help stop them from spreading as fast. Increasing nutrients fast will only make things worst. Increasing bio-diversity together with nutrients is the answer. Increasing flow in the sump, tank, and UV helps alot! Remove or reduce cleanup crew, leaving other algaes to grow out over rockwork helps them from taking over. A re-boot is better than a tank tear down since they will come back in every tank they are naturally occuring. If all else fails Id remove all the livestock and leave the tank dark and dirty for 1 month, after which sponges and other creatures will be there and should outcompete any dinos outbreak - aslong as your nutrients are present. First sign of dinos - blast them off their footing. Think of aiptasia or cyano; allow them to take over certain areas it becomes almost impossible to remove all of them.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

One thing you have to know is that you will probably never get rid of dinoflagellates once in the aquarium.

Well I'm one of the exceptions here. I had to tear down a tank and replace it, stored it all temporarily in another tank for several months. Had a dino outbreak and what I did was sort of against the grain in some aspects, but after reading the indirect-light comment (a few pages back) maybe not

I increased the light intensity and daily period. I went to full on for something like 16 hrs/day. I fed 10m before lights out and very sparingly. I siphoned off all the dinos I could 2x/day using an airline hose and a hard airline pipe to minimize water removal and did no water changes, only replacing what I removed. I blew off and netted as much as I could after the siphoning step. The only filtration I ran was (get ready for it) an algae scrubber, at that time it was a big T5HO unit on top of the tank. The outbreak lasted about 2 weeks and never came back, even after moving everything back to the original tank.

My feeling was that my method just flat burned it out. Burned out the available nutrients, that is, and possibly just made is an undesirable environment due to the high light. Maybe. Who really knows.

What I know is that it never came back, not even a hint of it. What I can definitely without a doubt tell you (for me at least) is that elevated N & P are not a red-flag for a pending dino outbreak. I have a tank that is kind of like a stress tester, most people would drop a load in their pants after reading my water tests on this crowded and overfed tank but I have a fraction of the problems that most people seem to have - most of whom are throwing every piece of equipment at it trying to head off the impending doom that is surely coming if they don't keep their water in perfect condition.

Not saying it's a model for duplication. But it's an example of how some things widely accepted as fact are not necessarily completely accurate.

 

[Davy Jones]

Personally, for me and my limited experience I have had dinos twice. Both times fall in line with carbon dosing (happened to be nopox). I had algae growth and thus nutrients, so i used nopox for a while. The first time i went on vacation for 2 weeks and it wasnt dosed, when i came back dinos.

The second time I just ran out of nopox and stopped dosing and after about 2 or 3 weeks, dinos.

No i am not saying that nopox causes dinos, or that carbon dosing does. But in my case i think the issue was that i had a bacteria population that was consuming all the nutrients, it likely became the dominant population during the nopox dosing and out competed most of the other strains in the tank. When i stopped dosing they didnt have the food they needed and the colonies crashed creating a vacuum that the dinos filled. Still fighting these jerks.

Good luck!

 

[reeferfoxx]

No i am not saying that nopox causes dinos, or that carbon dosing does. But in my case i think the issue was that i had a bacteria population that was consuming all the nutrients, it likely became the dominant population during the nopox dosing and out competed most of the other strains in the tank. When i stopped dosing they didnt have the food they needed and the colonies crashed creating a vacuum that the dinos filled. Still fighting these ********.

Well, I'll say it. Nopox doesn't put dinos in the tank but drives nutrients so low that bacterial and microbial competitors couldn't sustain survivability to out compete dinos. Carbon dosing might feed bacteria but so does nutrients.