Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

The Opinionated Reefer

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This is probably after the fact but can you get a vet to prescribe it?
Highly unlikely any vet would prescribe this for a fish tank in the UK. Certainly, not a family vet that usually deals with Dogs and pets like that.

The aquarium industry is completely overlooked in the UK, not a single thought was given about how Brexit or the current insanely high energy prices would affect it.
 

Reefer911

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Highly unlikely any vet would prescribe this for a fish tank in the UK. Certainly, not a family vet that usually deals with Dogs and pets like that.

The aquarium industry is completely overlooked in the UK, not a single thought was given about how Brexit or the current insanely high energy prices would affect it.
The Pharma industry is highly over regulated IMO

Did Brexit actually happen? Seems like everyone would want the UK to control the UK rather than Brussels.
 

The Opinionated Reefer

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The Pharma industry is highly over regulated IMO

Did Brexit actually happen? Seems like everyone would want the UK to control the UK rather than Brussels.
It happened and our trade with the EU has been severely restricted, prices on everything went up. We can no longer buy fish or corals or live rock from the EU. Before we could order corals direct from Germany as they have much better stock than us. We cant get corals from the USA either and attempting to bring them in would be a serious offense.
 

Reefer911

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It happened and our trade with the EU has been severely restricted, prices on everything went up. We can no longer buy fish or corals or live rock from the EU. Before we could order corals direct from Germany as they have much better stock than us. We cant get corals from the USA either and attempting to bring them in would be a serious offense.
As unfortunate as that is, I'd still choose sovereignty, that is, if its actually being practiced.
Hope things work out for y'all in the hobby. I'm sure theres an underground trade but obviously, that isn't ideal.
 

The Opinionated Reefer

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As unfortunate as that is, I'd still choose sovereignty, that is, if its actually being practiced.
Hope things work out for y'all in the hobby. I'm sure theres an underground trade but obviously, that isn't ideal.
Yeah, we always had sovereignty, it was just all about trade rules and regulations.
 

ikeb30

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Hi, new to Reef2Reef but I have a question about dosing the metroplex in a reef tank, I currently have a 60 gallon cube and on a few of my fish I have a pest break out. I am just wondering from those who have had success dosing metro with corals in the tank if it will treat ich/velvet/brook? I ordered it off of Amazon and it should be delivering tomorrow. Honestly really bummed because the coral/ fish that I got new is from a trusted LFS that usually quarantines.
 

Moe K

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THIS THREAD IS INSANE. I have read nearly 200 pages of it.

There is a story here and I think I might make a whole new thread after my findings are complete. This truly is like a snap shot in reefing history imo.

This is kind of how it went.

1. Dosing metro - Found to knock back dinos but mainly put them in a cyst state. They come back.

2. Dosing H2O2 - Works for a short term but can mess up your microbiome and is harsh on corals.

3. Micro Dosing Bleach - IMO this where the gold is at because it worked in quite a few tanks permanently. I also tried it myself so I will admit to being biased because it worked like a charm so far. It starts on page 70. Starting in 2016 until about 2018 people were arguing about its risks and effectiveness because it appeared to be super effective at killing dinos but high risk to fish. I have personally done the "safe" dose recommended here and I literally watch ostreo dinos lift and nearly melt away only seconds after my first dose. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. There are fine details that need to be worked out to get this as safe as possible first. This method is what sparked my interest to see why this never went mainstream other than "bleach scary!". And make no mistake it is kind of scary.

4. Dosing Vibrant - People first started learning about vibrant and little did they know it was all a lie and now known to be an algaecide. Everyone thought it was some type of super aggressive bacteria that would magically clean your tank. It also caused a lot of problems and steered people more away from micro dosing bleach. They just kept getting dinos. Similar to metro it seemed to put them in a cyst state.

5. Dosing Dino X - It was the new product out there and claimed to be just for eliminating dinos. There appeared to be coral losses. It's effectiveness was not seen to be long term but that could be by not being diligent in following up with post treatments to feed the microbiome. It is also an algaecide. From my understanding it is hard to get algaecide chems out of your tank. - I could be wrong there.

6. Increasing Biodiversity and Nutrient Control - This is where they started learning that one of the safest methods was to just leave it alone and try to add pods, increase/decrease no3 or po4 (there was a debate on which way). Not much mention on phyto or diatoms as we do today. It worked for some but was a looooooong process as it still is today.

Close to the end of it they looped back to debating about the bleach method. Its highly effective but the risks are scary. High risk for fish and possibly nems but a lot of that was missing details. I only saw one person mention using the "safe" dose and his fish died. Later he confessed his nitrates and po4 were sky high and I suspect so was his ammonia but we will never know.
Also other questions that need answering still. Was it the brand of bleach or the rapid die off dino toxins and the recommendation of not running carbon at the start of dosing.
Some were getting triggered just by just mentioning it and spread more fear.

#6. Is the closest thing to what I see being the definitive method to beating dinos and in the safest way. It works (eventually). You can get this method from the dino facebook group with great support. The problem is you never know how long it will take. Ostreo involves expensive UV sterilizers fine tuning the flow and amphidinium involve pods, phyto, and diatom dosing to try and induce diatom blooms. I have seen people take a couple weeks to literally a couple years. That doesnt sound too appealing especially if you see no progress going on months and corals are dying.

There was so many mistakes page after page. So many details left out. Not one person thought to ask what brand bleach, whats on the label, are their additives? The only people that I saw that it did not work for were people that used the wrong recommended "safe" dose, those that used it for very short periods (only 1 to 3 days), and those very near the end of this thread who I am not even sure had dinos as barely anyone used a microscope to identify what they had. Could have been trying to kill diatoms mistaken as amphidinium?

I am not recommending bleach (yet) but stating from this thread it appeared to be the most effective treatment. I really want to make my own thread solely about the bleach treatment as I have just gone through it but it is something very scary to recommend as a new reefer could easily wipe out their tanks. Especially people who do not pay close attention to details. For me personally it has not affected (possibly improved) my microbiome. I have been monitoring my sand with a scope and soon to send aquabiomics tests. I used bleach disinfected 7.5% which also has chloromax with no issues.

There is so much we didn't know when they were experimenting with bleach. My driving factor to read through so much of this looooong thread was to see where it went wrong. Really it seems to be a bit of fear mongering, lack of data and details, miscommunication, misleading fraudulent products (VIBRANT!) and then just burn out. Also the OP has disappeared long ago and hope they are OK.

This was a total soap opera.
 
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