Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[mandrieu]

Yeah, salinity drop doesn't even have to be full FW. And it's not a long hypo treatment - It's a few seconds of osmotic shock that ruptures the theca (armor).
Under a scope, a few drops of fw into a mL or so of dino sample ruptures the armor.
(Never tried it on unarmored amphidinium)

Do the cysts survive a fresh water bath?

 

[taricha]

Thank you taricha, I saw them moving so I think I have other tipe of dino now, I dont know how could that happen or maybe have both and those are the first to show after the blackout.

Seems overwhelmingly likely the second.
Like many before you, you had multiple kinds present, your treatment was effective against one kind, but less ineffective against another, allowing it to fill the void.
See posts by myself and scubabeth about round dinos "Coolia" and see if movement pattern matches yours.

 

[taricha]

Do the cysts survive a fresh water bath?

I think it busts even the double thick cyst wall, but I don't 100% remember.

 

[Lowefx]

Has anyone had success removing sand bed, rinsing it in fresh water (Rodi or tap water???) then putting it back into the tank. Curious if anyone tried it and if it worked.

 

[mandrieu]

Has anyone had success removing sand bed, rinsing it in fresh water (Rodi or tap water???) then putting it back into the tank. Curious if anyone tried it and if it worked.

I know some have removed the sand. Can't remember if they put it back or not. In my case, dinos have been mostly in the sand and I have tried everything without much success so far, except for removing the sand. I've even treated the tank with bleach, stirring the sand, and those monsters still come back. I think if I get to the point (soon) of having to remove the sand, I would just replace it with new one. I have a 125 gallon tank, so new sand for it is not cheap, but not a killer either.

 

[Lowefx]

I know some have removed the sand. Can't remember if they put it back or not. In my case, dinos have been mostly in the sand and I have tried everything without much success so far, except for removing the sand. I've even treated the tank with bleach, stirring the sand, and those monsters still come back. I think if I get to the point (soon) of having to remove the sand, I would just replace it with new one. I have a 125 gallon tank, so new sand for it is not cheap, but not a killer either.

I've tried all of that also, plus peroxide. Curious if this is successful

 

[Paullawr]

Unlikely as anything in the water column will just reseed the sand.

The best success stories are those whom removed the sand entirely.
Could be other factors as well but I've read more success getting the sand out than leaving it in.

I guess if you think about it no where to fully encyst. Easier for filtration to pull them out and for predation.

 

[Paullawr]

My dinos are back after the peroxide and blackout but I can see only round ones right now.

My problem was ostreopsis ovata and I dont know if its other stage of live of ostreopsis or its other tipe of dinos now? Its curious every time I make a blackout those are first to come back.

As you are able to get a sample of the cyst cells you might one to run an small experiment.

Use say 100ml of tank water in a couple of containers. Then add in one 1ml h202 and in the second 10ml h202. Give the water a swirl, leave 15 minutes then check samples.
Cells ruptured?

If not repeat test once containers fully rinsed.
Say 15ml container 1, 20ml container two.

The purpose is to see at what concentration disrupt the cell wall per ratio of h202.

This may sound like a daft test, but will hopefully put pay to so many failed attempts of 1ml per 10 US gallon.

I know h202 works at concentrated levels - it's at what level.

The same trial could also be applied to free swimmers.

Be interesting to see tests with UV light on contact as well.

 

[Scubabeth]

Seems overwhelmingly likely the second.
Like many before you, you had multiple kinds present, your treatment was effective against one kind, but less ineffective against another, allowing it to fill the void.
See posts by myself and scubabeth about round dinos "Coolia" and see if movement pattern matches yours.

@taricha, you are crazy---I mean so nice!---to force a bloom in your tank to do further dino research. Is this your DT or a smaller tank that has become a sacrificial one? I suppose if I had a tank to work with other than our DT it would be intriguing. Maybe once we're done QT'ing new fish for the DT I could transfer water over and see if I could force a bloom. It's weird, though, how so many folks say they are unable to force blooms in other tanks, even when transferring livestock over; just different parameters that are unfavorable for dino growth. Interesting indeed.

@Jolanta, when you check movement and the posts between @taricha and myself, and if you think they look similar to your round dinos, be encouraged. I have found individual cells of coolia under the scope, but none have formed strands or bloomed in our tank. (Seems you have more grouped together than I do, though, since there are more in the field of view in your scope. I usually only find single cells-no groups- when I take samples.) Do keep us posted on the ostreo after your blackout, and your newly seen round dinos!

 

[Jolanta]

As you are able to get a sample of the cyst cells you might one to run an small experiment.

Use say 100ml of tank water in a couple of containers. Then add in one 1ml h202 and in the second 10ml h202. Give the water a swirl, leave 15 minutes then check samples.
Cells ruptured?

If not repeat test once containers fully rinsed.
Say 15ml container 1, 20ml container two.

The purpose is to see at what concentration disrupt the cell wall per ratio of h202.

This may sound like a daft test, but will hopefully put pay to so many failed attempts of 1ml per 10 US gallon.

I know h202 works at concentrated levels - it's at what level.

The same trial could also be applied to free swimmers.

Be interesting to see tests with UV light on contact as well.

I will try to do it and let you know the results but Im not sure they are cyst becouse they are moving and taricha said if they are moving they are other kind of dinos.

 

[Scubabeth]

I will try to do it and let you know the results but Im not sure they are cyst becouse they are moving and taricha said if they are moving they are other kind of dinos.

Yup; seems like other dinos, not cysts...but, still interesting to do testing nonetheless!

 

[Paullawr]

I will try to do it and let you know the results but Im not sure they are cyst becouse they are moving and taricha said if they are moving they are other kind of dinos.

You're not having much luck are you

How does your tank look at the moment. Any photos ?

 

[Paullawr]

The only other thing I've not seen is a hike in tempreture or drop in tempreture. Both stressful to organisms. Just wonder whether either has any effect on them.

We no lower salinity has an effect what about a higher salinity. Most fish will survive this providing it's not a massive change. I just wonder whether it has any effect or not.

Sorry just throwing out different avenues. Probably all been covered before mind.

 

[Jolanta]

@taricha, you are crazy---I mean so nice!---to force a bloom in your tank to do further dino research. Is this your DT or a smaller tank that has become a sacrificial one? I suppose if I had a tank to work with other than our DT it would be intriguing. Maybe once we're done QT'ing new fish for the DT I could transfer water over and see if I could force a bloom. It's weird, though, how so many folks say they are unable to force blooms in other tanks, even when transferring livestock over; just different parameters that are unfavorable for dino growth. Interesting indeed.

@Jolanta, when you check movement and the posts between @taricha and myself, and if you think they look similar to your round dinos, be encouraged. I have found individual cells of coolia under the scope, but none have formed strands or bloomed in our tank. (Seems you have more grouped together than I do, though, since there are more in the field of view in your scope. I usually only find single cells-no groups- when I take samples.) Do keep us posted on the ostreo after your blackout, and your newly seen round dinos!

Thank you Scubabeth. Actualy there is few brown stains on my rock now, they dont form strains, look more like ciano that I also have I think from vibrant but its becouse is only 4 day of light and they are starting to multiply to form string once again in a week or so

 

[Jolanta]

You're not having much luck are you

How does your tank look at the moment. Any photos ?

My tank looks really clean now

But all my acros and millepora are death and my montiporas have only some pathes of live The good thing is I dont see dinos on them anymore.

They looked like that before the blackout

The good think is my tangs are still alive. I lost my tailspot blenny a lot of snails

 

[sowellj]

Sorry jolanta. I know it is very disheartening.

 

[Jolanta]

Sorry jolanta. I know it is very disheartening.

Thank you it really is, its the worst thing I have ever had in my tank, bryopsis is a blessing compared with this.

 

[mandrieu]

Thank you it really is, its the worst thing I have ever had in my tank, bryopsis is a blessing compared with this.

Agree. No fun at all

 

[Paullawr]

You have a lovely tank. Rock work is done really well.

 

[Jolanta]

You have a lovely tank. Rock work is done really well.

Thank you Paullawr but its not lovely for me anymore with all those almost death corals Dinos took away the joy of this hobby for me.