Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[Scubabeth]

Yes I was looking at the video and pictures of coolia and it definitively looks like that and moves like that If they dont stress my corals I could definitively live with them. I will continue to use vibrant and peroxide and hope it will stay this way. Thank you very much for your help!

I've not seen any coolia strand up in our tank, so hopefully you won't either!! I just find individual, moving cells, like in your video. Fingers crossed for you that you'll be able to begin to enjoy your tank again!

 

[mandrieu]

Im so sorry for you, I think it would be a good idea to start all new or take out the sand, maybe somehow some cyst stay alive in the sand, I better removed the sand when I knew I have dinos and left my tank barebottom.

Yes, I think I'll have to remove the sand. I've been reluctant to do it so far because I just don't like bare bottom tanks

 

[Jolanta]

Yes, I think I'll have to remove the sand. I've been reluctant to do it so far because I just don't like bare bottom tanks

I prefere sand too but with dinos I think it´s so hard to keep it nice looking anyway, you can always put sand back once you kill the dino monsters.

 

[mandrieu]

I prefere sand too but with dinos I think it´s so hard to keep it nice looking anyway, you can always put sand back once you kill the dino monsters.

I think that should be the plan

 

[mandrieu]

I prefere sand too but with dinos I think it´s so hard to keep it nice looking anyway, you can always put sand back once you kill the dino monsters.

So, how did you remove the sand from your tank?

 

[Jolanta]

So, how did you remove the sand from your tank?

It was only 1 inch layer and I siphoned it out with water changes

 

[Paullawr]

I feel your pain. I'm almost afraid to look in my tank anymore to see what coral is dying next. I won't give up and you shouldn't either. I'm thinking of getting a UV sterilizer and seeing if that help.

Indeed, go for a pond size UV. Forget the smaller aquarium ones.
If you have sand, ditch it. Once you have them beat you can always add sand.

Bare bottom helps to keep them in suspension and prevents them from going in to hiding. Even bleach didn't kill all cysts in the sandbed when tested.

You are right we should keen on fighting but sometimes I just feel so tired of it

Head and chin up girl. The way i see it, once you have overcome them one.wwy or other. You will be a better aquariust for it.

You wouldn't have considered a microscope or ID-ing what's in the sample. You wouldn't have carried out tests, drawn up hypothesis and spent such a large amount of time analysing for anything slightly off the reef-scape or inhabitants had you not had Dino's.

It's true we would rather enjoy fish and brightly coloured corals but nature doesn't want to make it that easy. Guess it's all part of the hobby.

Ultimately if there is one thing we all learn it's caution when introducing and checking your sources wisely.

That sounds like my story too... I got to the point, about 18 months ago where I broke down the tank, dumped 1 gallon of bleach into it and started from zero. Guess what: about 6 months ago they appeared again and here I am...

Yeah basically three times for me. I blame lack of dipping and buying from all and sundry. Sticking with trusted suppliers now.

Interesting about the effects of peroxide when other living things are present; totally makes sense, @taricha. Too bad there are other living things in our tanks, eh? Well, when it comes to ridding dinos, that is. Lots of good stuff; thank you for working on this!

That's right. Hence why some use it to oxodise their aquarium to improve water clarity. Like a liquid version of ozone. They both contain a free radical in the addition of any extra oxygen atom. Basically anything it touches the o3 sheds the unstable atom to reform o2 or h20.

H202 does have some value outside of Dino's. Especially for clearing frag plugs of algae you would rather not introduce or giving tank a spring clean.

So, how did you remove the sand from your tank?

Scoop it with a food scoop then Syphon rest.

 

[mwilk19]

Indeed, go for a pond size UV. Forget the smaller aquarium ones.

I have a standard 120 gallon tank. Is there any brand and wattage that you would recommend? Thanks for your help.

 

[taricha]

On the topic of UV, in other discussions, some believe that standard aquarium UV is too high flow and contact time is not enough, but slowing the flow does the trick.
Others say any dino that goes through the UV will be killed.
Interested in hearing if anyone has reports one way or another.

 

[Paullawr]

I have a standard 120 gallon tank. Is there any brand and wattage that you would recommend? Thanks for your help.

I'd opt.for one of these. Sorry from UK but you will find equivalent as they are jebao (China).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0...ds=pond+uv&dpPl=1&dpID=3159wuRTaFL&ref=plSrch

On the topic of UV, in other discussions, some believe that standard aquarium UV is too high flow and contact time is not enough, but slowing the flow does the trick.
Others say any dino that goes through the UV will be killed.
Interested in hearing if anyone has reports one way or another.

Correct, as per any free floating algae.

Contact time is important. These jebao like coralife UV spiral water round the tube increasing contact time.

I'd opt for a pump at around a 1000 litre an hour, or DC pump up to 2k an hour which will allow you to adjust easily. The other option and probably best is to run it off a fat canister filter.

 

[taricha]

I prefere sand too but with dinos I think it´s so hard to keep it nice looking anyway, you can always put sand back once you kill the dino monsters.

For those considering sand bed removal, you should read user DNA's prescription at RC http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24885008
Maybe if it works for others we'll call it "ultra-clean method" but it revolves around eliminating "marine snow" and all other forms of detritus & debris too.
The method needs other testers. Most notable about the success is how persistent and long running his infestation was and how resistant to every form of intervention it had been.

 

[taricha]

Contact time is important. These jebao like coralife UV spiral water round the tube increasing contact time.

I'd opt for a pump at around a 1000 litre an hour, or DC pump up to 2k an hour which will allow you to adjust easily. The other option and probably best is to run it off a fat canister filter.

Interesting. That 1000 L/hr nearly matches the 200 gal/hr recommendation that some UV users had been advocating.

 

[Paullawr]

I'm not going to guarantee any level of success or not add to loss of life. Still if going UV and knowing what I know now I'd have a shot at the following.

Preparation.

Clean out skimmer so in top performance.

Connect said UV to large canister filter. Load filter with cheapest carbon you can get hands on, gfo and fleece wadding. It needs to be cheap were changing often.

Mix up a kalk slurry and have at hand a pH probe.

If pumps face opposing ends of tank, change it to face pumps in direction to filter inlet. So one way. Place upper to upper mid section of tank.

Place opposing pumps at bottom angled up - constant on...But not powered on yet.

Other items needed, cat litter scoop, turkey baster, syphon some extra powerheads/water movers, white vinegar (5 litre) AND some free time. This going to take a few hours, but sure you have been there before.

Change light setting to switch off early (want it off soon as dark). Then leave off for 72 hour treatment.

1) First we play nice. Let the buggers do what they want during day. There is method in this madness.

Keep them happy we don't want to encourage cyst formation.

Start canister filter and UV.

Black out aquarium glass.

Give it an hour after lights out. When lights out hit powerheads with kalk slurry. Shoot for a pH of 9. 10 is ok IF your fish are hardy and it's a spike at that, not prolonged. Note I cannot guarantee there will be no casualties. Keep an eye on this. If it goes up dose vinegar accordingly to reduce pH.
I've done this, lost corals mainly on prolonged pH, not too much damage on short spike. Use pH probe to measure effects.
Don't do it if fish are suspectable to pH swings. Ie butterfly fish. If this is case either take out fish in quarantine or go with an increased h202 dosage.

The idea here is the pH shock will nuke free floating before they can encyst. If you do it right it will work BIG time.

Water is going to get pretty pants pretty quick. You will likely have a notable smell of toxin from the Dino's. It will be foul.
Let carbon do it's job here. Fleece will collect dead cells but we will need to change this all out later same evening.

Leave filter run a couple of hours, will help clear calcium flocculant in water column, which in turn will bind to the Dino's and help with filtering.

Next get the cat litter remover and take out sand. Syphon remaining. Use turkey baster to blast rocks and tank bottom. Again we want to lift this into water column. Put powerheads/pumps on bottom of tank on to keep stuff suspended and allow filter to do it's job.

Wait till it clears a bit, change media in can filter and leave running overnight.

Continue with 72 hour blackout. Blasting rocks occasionally with turkey baster. Change filter medium daily. Make sure skimmer is running well.

After blackout continue with UV now turn on lights as high as you can. Dino's don't like light too strong. They always form most out of direct light or lower down.

Again that's what I'd do.

But i can totally understand not wanting to try it. Otherwise get sand out and run UV 24/7 and see how it shakes up.

 

[Paullawr]

Forgot to say the 5 litre of vinegar is not just for counteracting pH but to clean equipment or pumps and inside filter after blackout.

 

[Paullawr]

Interesting. That 1000 L/hr nearly matches the 200 gal/hr recommendation that some UV users had been advocating.

1000 litre is almost optimum. For best success you want 600 - 800 an hour. However you have to factor in aquarium capacity. 120 us gallon tank is going to have such a slow turn over on 600litre an hour it would take days to filter all the water. Bear in mind it's never going to filter just 'unfiltered water's there will be a lot being re-filtered. So we have to balance it out more and up the throughput.

Now for something totally mad....I'd be interested to see how reef safe barley is. It's used in ponds to combat algae. It does alter ph, act as means of collecting algae and releases chemicals that can seriously tick stuff off. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...r6CW-5RHxbxAeBEug&sig2=1CtO-BGmraR8Cfn6E3us3A

 

[Jolanta]

For those considering sand bed removal, you should read user DNA's prescription at RC http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24885008
Maybe if it works for others we'll call it "ultra-clean method" but it revolves around eliminating "marine snow" and all other forms of detritus & debris too.
The method needs other testers. Most notable about the success is how persistent and long running his infestation was and how resistant to every form of intervention it had been.

I thing he might be true becouse my dino problems started short after I was messing "cleaning" my sand and lot of stuff got into water column and then settled in my rocks but at the other hand I had a lot of brown strings in my bottom glas just at front of jebao, really nothing of detritus there so who knows..

 

[Jolanta]

Today I came home to see a lot of brown stuff on my chaeto and I was scared to death to look at it in the microscope but for my surprise I saw a lot of brown worms moving. What can it be?

 

[Jolanta]

Indeed, go for a pond size UV. Forget the smaller aquarium ones.
If you have sand, ditch it. Once you have them beat you can always add sand.

Bare bottom helps to keep them in suspension and prevents them from going in to hiding. Even bleach didn't kill all cysts in the sandbed when tested.



Head and chin up girl. The way i see it, once you have overcome them one.wwy or other. You will be a better aquariust for it.

You wouldn't have considered a microscope or ID-ing what's in the sample. You wouldn't have carried out tests, drawn up hypothesis and spent such a large amount of time analysing for anything slightly off the reef-scape or inhabitants had you not had Dino's.

It's true we would rather enjoy fish and brightly coloured corals but nature doesn't want to make it that easy. Guess it's all part of the hobby.

Ultimately if there is one thing we all learn it's caution when introducing and checking your sources wisely.



Yeah basically three times for me. I blame lack of dipping and buying from all and sundry. Sticking with trusted suppliers now.



That's right. Hence why some use it to oxodise their aquarium to improve water clarity. Like a liquid version of ozone. They both contain a free radical in the addition of any extra oxygen atom. Basically anything it touches the o3 sheds the unstable atom to reform o2 or h20.

H202 does have some value outside of Dino's. Especially for clearing frag plugs of algae you would rather not introduce or giving tank a spring clean.



Scoop it with a food scoop then Syphon rest.

Thank you its realy true, I have learned those last months like I didnt in years I only would like that to be not at a cost of my poor tailspot blenny, snail and corals lives

 

[Paullawr]

I thing he might be true becouse my dino problems started short after I was messing "cleaning" my sand and lot of stuff got into water column and then settled in my rocks but at the other hand I had a lot of brown strings in my bottom glas just at front of jebao, really nothing of detritus there so who knows..

Upsetting a balance may cause them to bloom, yes. This is no different to aquariums with them but in a controlled method with other organisms outcompeting.

I kick started them when i actively started to remove hair algae from the rocks. Ironically the hair algae was stopping the Dino's.

But was it?

No i don't believe it was. See this is where this hobby hinges on the unknown/ancedotal.
I actually reckon it was due to isopods inhabitating the tank, grazing on hair algae and Dino's keeping them in check.
By removing the hair algae it reduced the food source depleted the population of isopods (i witnessed there numbers drop) and then had a Dino bloom.

Since then I advocate the purchase of isopods to build up a healthy population. Forget copepods they are too ineffective at Dino control and far easily predated themselves. Isopods are much larger, quicker and have a good chance of survival against fish.

 

[Jolanta]

Upsetting a balance may cause them to bloom, yes. This is no different to aquariums with them but in a controlled method with other organisms outcompeting.

I kick started them when i actively started to remove hair algae from the rocks. Ironically the hair algae was stopping the Dino's.

But was it?

No i don't believe it was. See this is where this hobby hinges on the unknown/ancedotal.
I actually reckon it was due to isopods inhabitating the tank, grazing on hair algae and Dino's keeping them in check.
By removing the hair algae it reduced the food source depleted the population of isopods (i witnessed there numbers drop) and then had a Dino bloom.

Since then I advocate the purchase of isopods to build up a healthy population. Forget copepods they are too ineffective at Dino control and far easily predated themselves. Isopods are much larger, quicker and have a good chance of survival against fish.

Some say dinos starts becouse of lack of biodiversity in the tank, lack of predatory creatures and people say to me ... buy copepods isopods ... To control the dinos I show them this video

I took it some time before the dino problem started, there were so many of them I was scared to look at the tank in the night and dinos killed them all, I cant see any now. So I think using isopods or amphipods to control ostreopsis ovata wont work