Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

Paullawr

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Some say dinos starts becouse of lack of biodiversity in the tank, lack of predatory creatures and people say to me ... buy copepods isopods ... To control the dinos I show them this video
I took it some time before the dino problem started, there were so many of them I was scared to look at the tank in the night and dinos killed them all, I cant see any now. So I think using isopods or amphipods to control ostreopsis ovata wont work :(
Very interesting. I guess then that all our hypothetical solutions are just that.
Do Dino's just stop. Give up. Is there some DNA mechanism that turns off. As opposed blooming they recede.

If so what is that trigger. How is it supressed.

I've heard.

Dirty tanks help.
- why. Dinoflagellates consume nitrate as food source. Just like they do in corals.

If it were that simple dose potassium nitrate and wait.

Predation.
As you point out. It decimated your pods.
Adding bacteria ie microbacter does nothing. Why would it. It's a thousand times smaller than a protist.

I guess we are no further to solution than we were twenty year ago.
 

Jolanta

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Very interesting. I guess then that all our hypothetical solutions are just that.
Do Dino's just stop. Give up. Is there some DNA mechanism that turns off. As opposed blooming they recede.

If so what is that trigger. How is it supressed.

I've heard.

Dirty tanks help.
- why. Dinoflagellates consume nitrate as food source. Just like they do in corals.

If it were that simple dose potassium nitrate and wait.

Predation.
As you point out. It decimated your pods.
Adding bacteria ie microbacter does nothing. Why would it. It's a thousand times smaller than a protist.

I guess we are no further to solution than we were twenty year ago.
If we only knew what couses the dino bloom it would be so much easier to find the cure, we should maybe see what all our tanks have in common and maybe we will find the answer
 

Paullawr

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Agree.

I think we need to take this from the top.

Salt used
Water used. Readings where applicable.
Salinity
Tempreture.
IDEALLY a Triton water test.
Age of tank.
Tempreture. AM, lunch,pm and night.
Live rock/dry rock. Same with sand.
Food type and quantity.
Filtration. In detail.
Corals.
Algae if any.
DSB, SSB, Zero SB.
Inverts.
Lighting, colour temperature and photoperiod.
Documented changes to combat it.
 

Jolanta

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Maybe its good we answer those questiosn all and maybe we will find something interesting.
My case
Salt used - probiotic reef salt aquaforest
Water used -RODI 0 tds
Salinity - 1026
Temperature 25 C
Tank age - one year ( nano upgrade)
Dry rock, dry sand
Flakes ocean nutricion formula one spectrum 3-4 times a day, nori for tangs
Filtration- chaeto, tunze 9410 skimmer

Corals sps , zoas, lps, soft
Algea valonia , some hair algea ( almost gone both becouse of vibrant)

Bare bottom now, before 1 inch sand bed special reef grade.

Inverts- turbos snails, peppermint shrimp both death becouse of dinos
Chitons, lysmata shrimp
Lighting- t5 light a combination of blueplus, purple plus, coral plus
 

scruggs1

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I had a dino outbreak about 6 weeks ago. I caught it early and its over now. Here is what I believe precipitated my outbreak.
1. I had VERY little algae growth in my tank. I was doing a 25% WC weekly, skimmed heavily, and didn't feed much if any to my corals each week. My tank was so clean that my only fish, an algae eating tail spot blenny, was skin and bones...until he started eating all my pods. I went from seeing pods all over the place to barely seeing any even with the lights off and using a flashlight. This predation that wiped out my pods happened in about a week.
2. Right after my pods were all but gone, I had 2/3 cup of very dark skimmate. I moved my light back during a water change, bumped the skimmer, it overflowed, and emptied the skimmer cup of junk back into my tank.
3. I was running my lights for 12-13 hours a day.
4. I first noticed the dynos about 2 days after the cup spilled.

I started treating with peroxide immediately at the rate of .1mL (as in 1/10th of a mL) per gallon and I cut my lights off for a couple days. Everything looked good when I cut them back on, but the dynos were back by that evening. It's almost like you can watch them grow. This plan changed to me using that same dose 2x a day, then I went to 3x a day. The tank water looked SUPER clear, but after a day or two, they came right back. Finally, I bumped up the dose to .2mL per gallon 4x a day. I did this for a few days, kept my lights on a 4 hour cycle, started baster feeding my corals 2x a week, and the dynos disappeared.

I still do a preventative peroxide dose every night but my lights are now on a 6 hour cycle, and I haven't seen dynos in about 3 weeks. Also, I have not done a water change in almost a month, but will do one this weekend. I took out my fish about a week ago, and can already see the pods out more, and more of them. I don't know what their gestation period is but either they have multiplied in a week or they know the fish is gone and are coming out and staying out more. Regardless, the dynos are gone now.
 

Paullawr

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Maybe its good we answer those questiosn all and maybe we will find something interesting.
My case
Salt used - probiotic reef salt aquaforest
Water used -RODI 0 tds
Salinity - 1026
Temperature 25 C
Tank age - one year ( nano upgrade)
Dry rock, dry sand
Flakes ocean nutricion formula one spectrum 3-4 times a day, nori for tangs
Filtration- chaeto, tunze 9410 skimmer

Corals sps , zoas, lps, soft
Algea valonia , some hair algea ( almost gone both becouse of vibrant)

Bare bottom now, before 1 inch sand bed special reef grade.

Inverts- turbos snails, peppermint shrimp both death becouse of dinos
Chitons, lysmata shrimp
Lighting- t5 light a combination of blueplus, purple plus, coral plus
Salt reefflowers probiotic
Dry sand
Dry rock
Sg 1.025
Dkh 8
Mg 1410
Cal 420
Nitrate zero
Phosphate zero
(Corals are starving going to start dosing nitrate).
Algae none visually.
Dose MB7
Prodibo reef
Reef flowers amino and vits
Acropower
Reed twice daily, frozen rotifers, oyster eggs, brine pellets.
Triton base elements via dosing pump.
Water changes NA
Lighting XR15 pro G4
Downgraded to nano from 200 litre plus sump.

Tank status 23.03 no dinoflagellates.
 

Paullawr

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I had a dino outbreak about 6 weeks ago. I caught it early and its over now. Here is what I believe precipitated my outbreak.
1. I had VERY little algae growth in my tank. I was doing a 25% WC weekly, skimmed heavily, and didn't feed much if any to my corals each week. My tank was so clean that my only fish, an algae eating tail spot blenny, was skin and bones...until he started eating all my pods. I went from seeing pods all over the place to barely seeing any even with the lights off and using a flashlight. This predation that wiped out my pods happened in about a week.
2. Right after my pods were all but gone, I had 2/3 cup of very dark skimmate. I moved my light back during a water change, bumped the skimmer, it overflowed, and emptied the skimmer cup of junk back into my tank.
3. I was running my lights for 12-13 hours a day.
4. I first noticed the dynos about 2 days after the cup spilled.

I started treating with peroxide immediately at the rate of .1mL (as in 1/10th of a mL) per gallon and I cut my lights off for a couple days. Everything looked good when I cut them back on, but the dynos were back by that evening. It's almost like you can watch them grow. This plan changed to me using that same dose 2x a day, then I went to 3x a day. The tank water looked SUPER clear, but after a day or two, they came right back. Finally, I bumped up the dose to .2mL per gallon 4x a day. I did this for a few days, kept my lights on a 4 hour cycle, started baster feeding my corals 2x a week, and the dynos disappeared.

I still do a preventative peroxide dose every night but my lights are now on a 6 hour cycle, and I haven't seen dynos in about 3 weeks. Also, I have not done a water change in almost a month, but will do one this weekend. I took out my fish about a week ago, and can already see the pods out more, and more of them. I don't know what their gestation period is but either they have multiplied in a week or they know the fish is gone and are coming out and staying out more. Regardless, the dynos are gone now.
Yes pods know when fish are about. My isos wouldn't come out during day until realises no fish. Once i introduced fish they only come out at night.
 

taricha

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Very interesting. I guess then that all our hypothetical solutions are just that.

I guess we are no further to solution than we were twenty year ago.
Nah, problem is we ask wrong question too much.
We ask about "dinos"
....when we should be asking how do we kill ostreopsis, amphidinium or prorocentrum while keeping the closely related symbiodinium in our corals alive.

Dinos are too different to talk about the way we do.
But I can guarantee you a tank with amphipod army in the video will never get an amphidinium problem!
 

mandrieu

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Maybe its good we answer those questiosn all and maybe we will find something interesting.
My case
Salt used - probiotic reef salt aquaforest
My tank is a 125 Gallon

Salt Instant Ocean
Dry sand
Dry rock
Sg 1.025
Dkh 8.5
Mg 1350
Cal 420
Nitrate 2 ppm
Phosphate 0.03
Algae none visually.
Food: frozen brine, marine cuisine. Some flakes here and there (Formula one, Formula 2)
Water changes , haven't done in more than a month
Lighting, 4x Kessil LED 360 NE, running at about 30% now
Filtration = Skimmer running normal - I use an HOB filter for carbon

Tank status 23.03 = 75% of my sand covered in dinos - no stringy with bubbles - like a mat (no, it's not cyano...)
 

Paullawr

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Ok so we know what they like. Normal tank params.

Though keep them coming.

Whats the score when we best them.

For me, the first time with first aquarium. This was a noob thing to do / borderline stupidity.

After the whole tank cost i opted for a hydrometer. I'm sure it was ok to begin with. Seemed that way a year later.

Until i got a Dino bloom. And very odd light green 6 inch high hair algae.poppped up.
I didn't know.about dinos then. So treated as i would with Syphon.
I was having issue with Monti so took water sample to lfs.

The sg read 1.038 yes i had aclimatisedised my fish to the dead sea. I dropped....Sg too.quickly...Day later no Dino's.

Sulphur dioxide also.works.
 

mandrieu

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Ok so we know what they like. Normal tank params.
The sg read 1.038 yes i had aclimatisedised my fish to the dead sea. I dropped....Sg too.quickly...Day later no Dino's.
That's a good story.
In my case, I just don't know how they started. I had been running the tank without issues for 1.5 year, corals were growing, parameters were perfect. I suspect they came with a frag but can't prove it.
Sulphur dioxide also.works.
What do you mean?
 

Paullawr

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I had an issue with a reactor running biopellets at the time of my second infestation.
I had unplugged it during maintenance and forgot to plug back in.
It was a week later on maintenance that that I spotted a plug wasn't in and dealt to with it.

The reactor had sat there in zero o2 for a week.

On starting.back up....,bingo.
 

Jolanta

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Nah, problem is we ask wrong question too much.
We ask about "dinos"
....when we should be asking how do we kill ostreopsis, amphidinium or prorocentrum while keeping the closely related symbiodinium in our corals alive.

Dinos are too different to talk about the way we do.
But I can guarantee you a tank with amphipod army in the video will never get an amphidinium problem!
Yes you are right, there are so many people telling me " I did " that " and killed my dinos" but its not the same kill "ordinary" blooms and kill ovata, you simply cant compare. And I really do think they come in some frag or fish becouse my tank was healthy with healthy pod population before I got them. The curious think I did observed my skimmer overflowed once before my snails started to die and I moved some sand for cleaning and liberated some organic mater so maybe thats it, I had a lot in the water column to feed the dino bloom. Also I had low nutrients system and used probiotic salt, I already saw few people dealing dinos in Aquaforest product group so I think using probiotic products and ULNS is asking for trouble.
 

Paullawr

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Yes you are right, there are so many people telling me " I did " that " and killed my dinos" but its not the same kill "ordinary" blooms and kill ovata, you simply cant compare. And I really do think they come in some frag or fish becouse my tank was healthy with healthy pod population before I got them. The curious think I did observed my skimmer overflowed once before my snails started to die and I moved some sand for cleaning and liberated some organic mater so maybe thats it, I had a lot in the water column to feed the dino bloom. Also I had low nutrients system and used probiotic salt, I already saw few people dealing dinos in Aquaforest product group so I think using probiotic products and ULNS is asking for trouble.
ULNS could be the problem. What would be good is someone to correctly do the dirty water method, not by feeding more which adds phosphates but using something like potassium nitrate to increase nitrate levels, say up to 30ppm and see what effects on Dino's if any it has.

I'm not convinced though as some people mess with the balance in tank by adding more food etc in order to bring them out of hiding.

The other thing corals who host their own version of dinoflagellates just increase numbers in high nutrients hence why they lose colour and brown out. They dont tend to die.
 

mandrieu

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ULNS could be the problem. What would be good is someone to correctly do the dirty water method, not by feeding more which adds phosphates but using something like potassium nitrate to increase nitrate levels, say up to 30ppm and see what effects on Dino's if any it has.

I'm not convinced though as some people mess with the balance in tank by adding more food etc in order to bring them out of hiding.

The other thing corals who host their own version of dinoflagellates just increase numbers in high nutrients hence why they lose colour and brown out. They dont tend to die.
I still believe I introduced dinos in my tank with a frag or something, but around that time I had started mucking around with nitrates and phosphates to get the "perfect parameters". Until then, my corals and everything were happy with between 10-20 ppm nitrates, 0.03-0.05 phosphates. I started my quest to get those params to zero: GFO, bacteria, carbon dosing. I got there... Again, can't blame on that but dinos showed up around that time frame.
Something interesting: in this current dino bloom I have right now, last night I came to realize I can't remember when was the last time I had to clean the glasses. Easily 3 or 4 weeks. No visible algae to be found anywhere in the tank. And I have some 5 ppm detectable nitrates and some phosphates. I may have killed all algae with the bleach (failed) attempts?
 

wyattray

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I have a slight Dino bloom in my tank, it is mostly centralized to the sand bed, and that is where ill be concentrating first. It has killed almost any snail I have put in the tank.

70G with 25 G Sump

HW Salt
Dry sand
Dry rock
Sg 1.025
Dkh 9.3
Mg 1350
Cal 420
Nitrate (Need to Test)
Phosphate (Need to Test
Algae- GHA, Bubble Algae.
Food: Frozen Mysis, Rods Fish
Water changes , 2 Week 20 Gallon
Lighting, Reef Breeders Photon V2
Filtration = Skimmer with CO2 Buffer, GFO, Carbon, Biopellets (New)

Light Dusting of Dino during the day few concentrated spots, night barely visible.


Im going to first start by raising the PH to 8.4 over the weekend and im going to black the tank out.

Im also considering removing most of the sand, I have an egg crate at the bottom of the tank, im curing if after the black out removing the sand if the dino will come back. If not I would replace with new sand.
 

mandrieu

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Im going to first start by raising the PH to 8.4 over the weekend and im going to black the tank out.
In my case, dinos in the sand, blackouts have not helped at all. I've even speculated if it doesn't make it worst because they go dormant or form cysts in the dark making it harder for any other action you take to be effective. After all, we all see they seem to "disappear" during the night, just to come back when light are on. This may even be the case when we dose H2O2 or bleach, typically when lights are off. This may work some for free floating dinos, but in the sand it just doesn't work, for me, at least. If I didn't have corals to protect, I would probably try to attack this monsters during the day, with lights on.
 

Paullawr

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I still believe I introduced dinos in my tank with a frag or something, but around that time I had started mucking around with nitrates and phosphates to get the "perfect parameters". Until then, my corals and everything were happy with between 10-20 ppm nitrates, 0.03-0.05 phosphates. I started my quest to get those params to zero: GFO, bacteria, carbon dosing. I got there... Again, can't blame on that but dinos showed up around that time frame.
Something interesting: in this current dino bloom I have right now, last night I came to realize I can't remember when was the last time I had to clean the glasses. Easily 3 or 4 weeks. No visible algae to be found anywhere in the tank. And I have some 5 ppm detectable nitrates and some phosphates. I may have killed all algae with the bleach (failed) attempts?
You are right that is interesting.

The only time ever this occurred wity nutrients was after a sulphur dioxide mess hit my tank. I had no algae for about 6 weeks after.
 

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