Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[RMS18]

I thought about this. And tablets to make drinking water. But dumping one of those tablets in my tank freaks me out, honestly.

Do we know if these tablet kill dinos to being with? Can someone do a test on it outside their tank first.

 

[Paullawr]

Do we know if these tablet kill dinos to being with? Can someone do a test on it outside their tank first.

No idea but would be a good test in a sample of water first.

 

[RMS18]

No idea but would be a good test in a sample of water first.

Well if you find death in the sample send some tabs my way and I'll test them slowly in my system.

 

[Paullawr]

I don't have Dino's but have had them and always hoping a cure can be found in the event of them reappearing. Otherwise I'd do a test.

 

[RMS18]

I don't have Dino's but have had them and always hoping a cure can be found in the event of them reappearing. Otherwise I'd do a test.

Ahhh well lucky you... ok. You have these tablets or was that someone else? Let's get a tablet into someone hands who has dinos and a scope and go from there.

 

[Medic755]

I had a dino outbreak when my fuge broke. I cut the photo period to 4 hrs and dosed kalk in the ATO which kept the pH between 8.25-8.35 consistently. I also suctioned out the sand and removed every bit on dino I could find. i also upped the GFO and biopelets. About 5 dyas later and I don't see any now.

 

[Paullawr]

Ahhh well lucky you... ok. You have these tablets or was that someone else? Let's get a tablet into someone hands who has dinos and a scope and go from there.

Yes it was me. Happy to send them out if someone wants to test.

Mind i might as well have Dino's. My Radion has decided to die and now the tank is darkness.....
I thought fish keeping was supposed to be relaxing.
It's traumatic that's what it is.

 

[taricha]

I haven't read the entire thread. With that being said, is there a specific treatment or one that has worked for prorocentrum dinos?

If you aren't ready to go bleach, try strong UV with slow flow. Some suggestion that prorocentrum lima might leave the substrate and go into water column at night, like ostreopsis.

Would be good to find out, and zero risk.

 

[RMS18]

Yes it was me. Happy to send them out if someone wants to test.

Mind i might as well have Dino's. My Radion has decided to die and now the tank is darkness.....
I thought fish keeping was supposed to be relaxing.
It's traumatic that's what it is.

Haha relaxing haaaa.

 

[mandrieu]

Do we know if these tablet kill dinos to being with? Can someone do a test on it outside their tank first.

I don't know for certain. I was looking for information on how to kill or destroy dino cysts and I came across Aquamira tablets. They are used by hikers to sterilize water from creeks, ponds. Based on the information I found they kill all kinds of bacteria, viruses, but what caught my attention is "it kills Cryptosporidium cysts" and other nasties. I have not tested them in my tank

 

[taricha]

What kind of dinos do you have? We're they just on the sand? Did they create the long strings? Growing over corals?

This seems to also be a factor we have to keep in mind. Not everyone has the same dinos in their system. Personally mine only grow on the sand and do not create the long snotty strings. They have more of a "carpet" look.

Amen. Saying "x worked" or "y didn't work" is nearly useless if we don't identify the strain.
Ostis can be distinguished with no scope. Nothing else has the microfiber in the mucus matrix to make strings that long. It also is the most bubbly. Plus it grabs hold of things in the highest flow possible.
I haven't ever had proro in my system before so I can't play with finding a way to differentiate between prorocentrum and amphidinium.

 

[RMS18]

I don't know for certain. I was looking for information on how to kill or destroy dino cysts and I came across Aquamira tablets. They are used by hikers to sterilize water from creeks, ponds. Based on the information I found they kill all kinds of bacteria, viruses, but what caught my attention is "it kills Cryptosporidium cysts" and other nasties. I have not tested them in my tank

Hmm look like this would be a balancing act on keep the tank from crashing. However if they are used for that then consumed by humans then it can be to bad.

Look like we need someone to step up who has a scope to run some tests. Like I said in another post i'd be willing to try it in my system after it is identified that dinos die.

 

[RMS18]

Amen. Saying "x worked" or "y didn't work" is nearly useless if we don't identify the strain.
Ostis can be distinguished with no scope. Nothing else has the microfiber in the mucus matrix to make strings that long. It also is the most bubbly. Plus it grabs hold of things in the highest flow possible.
I haven't ever had proro in my system before so I can't play with finding a way to differentiate between prorocentrum and amphidinium.

Off their site:

Chlorine dioxide, a well established disinfectant, is generated when the Aquamira[emoji768] Water Purifier Tablets come in contact with water. Chlorine dioxide is iodine and chlorine free. The unique formula works by releasing nascent oxygen, a highly active form of oxygen, which is a strong oxidant and a powerful germicidal agent. Chlorine dioxide has been used by municipal water treatment plants to kill a variety of waterborne pathogens since the late 1940s. Unlike free chlorine (familiar as household bleach) or other halogen chemicals (such as iodine), chlorine dioxide does not create potentially harmful by-products.

Aquamira’s key benefits are clearly evident when compared to the other common portable water treatment chemical: iodine. Most importantly, chlorine dioxide is a significantly stronger oxidant than iodine, with greater pathogen killing power. Unlike iodine, chlorine dioxide does not discolor water, nor does it give water an unpleasant taste. In fact, chlorine dioxide is often used to improve the taste of water by neutralizing unpleasant flavors.

 

[Paullawr]

Off their site:

Chlorine dioxide, a well established disinfectant, is generated when the Aquamira[emoji768] Water Purifier Tablets come in contact with water. Chlorine dioxide is iodine and chlorine free. The unique formula works by releasing nascent oxygen, a highly active form of oxygen, which is a strong oxidant and a powerful germicidal agent. Chlorine dioxide has been used by municipal water treatment plants to kill a variety of waterborne pathogens since the late 1940s. Unlike free chlorine (familiar as household bleach) or other halogen chemicals (such as iodine), chlorine dioxide does not create potentially harmful by-products.

Aquamira’s key benefits are clearly evident when compared to the other common portable water treatment chemical: iodine. Most importantly, chlorine dioxide is a significantly stronger oxidant than iodine, with greater pathogen killing power. Unlike iodine, chlorine dioxide does not discolor water, nor does it give water an unpleasant taste. In fact, chlorine dioxide is often used to improve the taste of water by neutralizing unpleasant flavors.

I don't have those tablets but sound pretty good.

 

[Paullawr]

These are what i have.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campden_tablet

 

[RMS18]

These are what i have.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campden_tablet

Yours also seem like a solid option.

 

[CJBuckeyes]

Anyone have an ID on these guys? Have treated with bleach 3 times, done two blackouts, and currently am using H2O2 to slow their spread. They keep coming back:-/

 

[Jolanta]

Still no brown string and my rocks are getting more and more coraline algae, I know 9 days with light its little time to be happy but I didnt see any coraline growth since dino started and after the last blackout they were back in few days so this time I see a diference. My acan and blasto are sad becouse of the peroxide and I think starts to die and I dont know if I should stop peroxide to see if they recover and take a risk my dinos return or better continue. Also with a little bit more of vibrant or maybe h2o2 my chaeto started to die so I removed it,it wasnt growing anyway.

 

[mcarroll]

I'd say these are becoming as common as aiptasia.

+1

They're riding the carbon-source+GFO wave of popularity. Keeping near-zero nutrient levels has been popularized as being an easy, no-brainer solution to over-stocked, over-fed tanks. Nothing is that simple.

Metro has around an 86% success rate. Whilst didn't kill off completely there were clearly signs it knocked them back.

A medicinal treatment like that is supposed to knock back the invader to allow the system itself to recover. This is how we look at infections in humans and in fish. It's a mistake for us not to look at the whole tank this way.

We need to eliminate the conditions that allowed these bugs to outcompete everything in the tank, including their predators. We also need to make sure there's something more beneficent to take it's space.

So metro + Nitazoxanide + algae + fungal remover.

This way we can target the cells and its food source.

I think we're starting to imagine the possibility of a sterile reef tank when we go that far. No way, IMO.

Yes, I think metro is severely underrated. It might be the only chemical means we have that actually selectively hurts dinos.

I hope this isn't a completely dead horse, but is this documented somewhere? I'd appreciate a shortcut to some literature if you/anyone has some already.

Ooh, a disagreement. Interesting!

By "dinos", I mean the species from the groups ostreopsis, amphidinium and prorocentrum that actually form blooms in our tanks. These are all benthic/epiphytic and photoautotrophs.
Not talking about free swimming planktonic heterotrophic species that never form blooms in a reef tank.

By algae, I mostly mean GHA, turf, macroalgae, and similar, although single cell microalgae ("phytoplankton" to us) has interesting properties too.

I'm gonna have to poke around so I can cite sources on this, but there really is no evidence for the main dino species in our tanks ingesting cells of anything.

Great summary!!!!

My blog (see my sig) has had a link I've cited numerous times....I think even here in this thread a few times...

Bacterivory in algae: A survival strategy during nutrient limitation (c1993)

Here's the abstract, but the whole article is available:

Bacterivory in obligate phototrophic algal flagellates may be an important strategy for acquiring nutrients during periods of inorganic nutrient limitation. Several marine algal flagellates were shown to increase bactivory when phosphate was limited. Grazing on bacteria by algal flagellates was found during blooms of Prymnesium parvum in Sandsljorden, western Norway, in 1989 and Chrysochromulina polylepis on the south and west coast of Norway in 1988. Dissolved phosphate was not detectable in these situations. Algal flagellates may graze bacteria to obtain phosphate, which may permit these algal flagellates to develop blooms when phosphate becomes limited.​

If you aren't ready to go bleach, try strong UV with slow flow. Some suggestion that prorocentrum lima might leave the substrate and go into water column at night, like ostreopsis.

Would be good to find out, and zero risk.

+1 on trying UV.

Properly sized and installed, as you suggest.

I wouldn't install one without talking to the manufacturer. (And I wouldn't buy one without understanding the mfgr's recommendation!)

I'd also use some diatom filtration as another possible supplement.

Another thing I've run into (can't recall which article....maybe one already linked on my blog) is that some dino's apparently have a reverse daylight cycle...rather than responding to extended dark like we're familiar with, they respond to extended light periods.

I've never heard of anyone trying it, but it seems like an EXTENDED LIGHTS-ON could be a logical thing to experiment with if a BLACKOUT has no effect.

 

[Paullawr]

Anyone have an ID on these guys? Have treated with bleach 3 times, done two blackouts, and currently am using H2O2 to slow their spread. They keep coming back:-/

It's always difficult to say but I'd go for amphidinium.