Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[drawman]

I know this is going to sound crazy. When I first started my reef I was using tap water. I never had a Dino problem I had hair algae. So I switched to ro water and running gfo and my hair algae disappeared. Fast forward 8 months I stated to have I now know is Dino's. Been dealing with it ever since and can't have much clean up crew either.

I'm setting up a refugium and going back to tap. We'll see how it goes.

Personally I wouldn't go back to tap water but I would at phosphate to your water. You were definitely depleting your water of PO4 with the changes you made which gave the dinos the niche to bloom...not crazy at all. Tap water will contain a lot of other things that you won't want to be adding to your tank. You can get bottled PO4 for a reasonable cost .

PO4 = .06ppm NO3= 0ppm and I discovered the alk. issue because I bought a new Hanna alk. tester 1 month ago. I had a bad kit previous to this one.

Yeah I hear ya. I always try to confirm with a third test kit just in case. But I usually keep acros that are VERY sensitive to alkalinity changes. It may not hurt for you to raise both PO4 and NO3 to see if that will help...

 

[sfin52]

Personally I wouldn't go back to tap water but I would at phosphate to your water. You were definitely depleting your water of PO4 with the changes you made which gave the dinos the niche to bloom...not crazy at all. Tap water will contain a lot of other things that you won't want to be adding to your tank. You can get bottled PO4 for a reasonable cost .


Yeah I hear ya. I always try to confirm with a third test kit just in case. But I usually keep acros that are VERY sensitive to alkalinity changes. It may not hurt for you to raise both PO4 and NO3 to see if that will help...

For the longest time I was reading and being told 0 phosphates now I'm reading some phosphates are good just not in a high dose. This hobby can be very rewarding and very frustrating. So many products and different information that goes contradicts each other.

Thanks I'll go that route.

 

[drawman]

For the longest time I was reading and being told 0 phosphates now I'm reading some phosphates are good just not in a high dose. This hobby can be very rewarding and very frustrating. So many products and different information that goes contradicts each other.

Thanks I'll go that route.

Honestly you're not the only one. I think there has been a shift with a lot of reefers for "dirtier" water. Now this doesn't mean to let detritus accumulate and not have good export methods (ie skimming, refugium, etc) but rather to allow some nutrients in the water. You can look at vendors like BattleCorals and WWC they both run a little higher nitrates.

Truly 0ppm PO4 can be very bad for coral and certainly ideal for a dinoflagellate bloom. I feel that dinos are one of the worst things I've encountered in this hobby and I've seen my share!

 

[sfin52]

I just pulled gfo. I'm planning on setting my refugium this weekend. I'm hoping to set up things that will out compete these horrible things.

 

[mcarroll]

@drawman and @sfin52 this is an out of date thread with poor methods being used and recommended.

Almost every case of dino's in this thread turned into a relapse with several cases turning into dead tanks where nothing would grow aside from dino's and cyano. The cases where dino's appeared not to come back had real complications like "mystery" livestock death....I'd bet dino's still show up later on those cases too if you took the time to track them down.

The thread "Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?" will take you in a much more productive direction.

Plenty of info there to explain the nutrient situation and plenty of folks practicing the treatment. Ask questions when you get there!!!

@sfin52 do you have a thread specifically for your tank already? Post the link over on that thread or PM it to me if you don't mind!

 

[saltwaterpicaso]

I agree they are imposible to beat

 

[sfin52]

I agree they are imposible to beat

Check thread out. It helps to start at the beginning. It has me on the right track.

 

[sfin52]

I agree they are imposible to beat

@drawman and @sfin52 this is an out of date thread with poor methods being used and recommended.

Almost every case of dino's in this thread turned into a relapse with several cases turning into dead tanks where nothing would grow aside from dino's and cyano. The cases where dino's appeared not to come back had real complications like "mystery" livestock death....I'd bet dino's still show up later on those cases too if you took the time to track them down.

The thread "Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?" will take you in a much more productive direction.

Plenty of info there to explain the nutrient situation and plenty of folks practicing the treatment. Ask questions when you get there!!!

@sfin52 do you have a thread specifically for your tank already? Post the link over on that thread or PM it to me if you don't mind!

Go to this thread it's really helped me.

 

[saltwaterpicaso]

i have been following this thread since its start and the bleach thread I have done everything to and its still in my tank I just keep at my water changes and cleaning and just live with it hoping someday something out competes it

 

[mcarroll]

@saltwaterpicaso Bleach is not good unless you're disinfecting a counter top.

Can you post a full tank pic and full set of test results?

Have you been able to get a microscope pic of your invader to confirm its ID? ($12 toy scope is what plenty of folks have used....same as what I got.)

If you don't already have a thread where you've compiled info about your tank, you should start one! If you do, link it here and/or PM me!!!

 

[ENARP]

I am giving up...tried 3 day black out twice, a seven day black out with Dino-X, no water changes, large water changes, overfeed, under feed, raising PO4, raising NO3, allowing other algae to grow, hydrogen peroxide and over the past 4 1/2 months nothing has worked. The Dino's always come back in a week or two. I do not know if there is any correlation, but Dino's showed up right after the Fluczanole treatment for Bryopsis. So now I am just going to do absolutely nothing, but just make sure I feed the fish from time to time and keep the ATO with water. The process has already wiped out all of my sps coral and most of the softies and half my fish. Quite depressing to go from a tank that I was so proud of to a total waste.

 

[landlubber]

I am giving up...tried 3 day black out twice, a seven day black out with Dino-X, no water changes, large water changes, overfeed, under feed, raising PO4, raising NO3, allowing other algae to grow, hydrogen peroxide and over the past 4 1/2 months nothing has worked. The Dino's always come back in a week or two. I do not know if there is any correlation, but Dino's showed up right after the Fluczanole treatment for Bryopsis. So now I am just going to do absolutely nothing, but just make sure I feed the fish from time to time and keep the ATO with water. The process has already wiped out all of my sps coral and most of the softies and half my fish. Quite depressing to go from a tank that I was so proud of to a total waste.

flucannozole was a wolf in sheeps clothing for me too. what it took in algae it doubled in dinos and killed off much of the microfauna in my system which in turn finished off my mandarine.

 

[Spschief85]

I am giving up...tried 3 day black out twice, a seven day black out with Dino-X, no water changes, large water changes, overfeed, under feed, raising PO4, raising NO3, allowing other algae to grow, hydrogen peroxide and over the past 4 1/2 months nothing has worked. The Dino's always come back in a week or two. I do not know if there is any correlation, but Dino's showed up right after the Fluczanole treatment for Bryopsis. So now I am just going to do absolutely nothing, but just make sure I feed the fish from time to time and keep the ATO with water. The process has already wiped out all of my sps coral and most of the softies and half my fish. Quite depressing to go from a tank that I was so proud of to a total waste.

Have you tryed dosing copepods and live phyto? I've been dealing with a devastating outbreak for almost 3 months... I've dosed no3 via stump remover and neophos by brightwells... I got my nutrients back in check and when I did my chryophytes seized to exist but the dinos appeared... when the dinos appeared I was just dosing no3 and had .00 po4 via Hanna which is what I believe led to the Dino outbreak... anyway... what I've done is raise nutrients no3 to 7 to 8ppm via red Sea and po4 to .08 to .07 via hanna, feed only frozen gut loaded brine via hikari, mutiple 3 day black outs, run only actinic for a week or two after turning them back on, I've dosed 10ml a day of microbe lift special blend, run a filter sock 24/7 and change it every 2 to 3 days. I've been dosing dinoX for almost 3 weeks, blow off rocks after you turn on pumps then clamp a filter sock to the sump and put the end of your siphon hose into it and siphon the detritus and dinos into it every other day. Use Mr clean or knock off magic erasers to remove dinos from overflow or glass then wash it out in the sink and let dry for next day, skim heavy. I have not done one water change since the outbreak began, also as a note replace ro/di filters, I also dosed seachem prime early on to try and remove any heavy metals that may have been lurking, also take out powerheads and clean them of any dinos... manually remove as many as possible... I didn't think I was every going to win this battle and I'm not totally out of the dark yet, BUT I do have the upper hand and on Saturday I'm going to start running a healthy amount of GAC to remove any toxins lingering and any of the dinoX before Tuesday's coral shipment arrives in hopes that I'll have my reef tank back and can start enjoying this hobby again... wish me luck guys. I do believe that staying diligent and manually removing as much as possible as well as bringing nutrients back into the Redfield ratio and cutting back lighting to just actinic and the dinoX has helped significantly, also a note that a few days after dosing the dinoX I could see bleached dinos everywhere but some seemed unaffected but they did not have the bubbles attached to them like before unless I started running too much light again. I have noticed a little bit of cyno appearing which I'm totalling inviting at this point... I may dose a little vodka to encourage it's growth but I'm holding off on that for now.

 

[rockstarta78]

flucannozole was a wolf in sheeps clothing for me too. what it took in algae it doubled in dinos and killed off much of the microfauna in my system which in turn finished off my mandarine.

^^^ This right here is what I have been thinking for a while. I think if you have dino in your tank and you dose fluco to deal with Bryopsis, IMHO it makes the situation worse. It will take care of Bryopsis, but I think it makes the dino situation worse. While that's an anecdotal evidence, and I don't have the means to prove my comment.

I had a bad case of dino, so I started dosing NO3 and PO4, my GHA and Bryopsis took over the tank while dino ended up being only on the sand bed. I figured if I kill bryopsis the die-off will create enough NO3 and PO4 where the leftover dino will not be an issue. I was wrong, Bryopsis are 99% gone, but I think so are my copepods. Now I see dino making a come back.

I have started running a UV filter. I think I am going to try a different approach this time instead of dosing NO3 and PO4, which hasn't worked for me. The issue I have with dosing NO3 and PO4 is, if you miss a day or 2, you will pretty much have to start all over again. With a busy schedule I am struggling to make time everyday to measure and dose. I am going to do few big water change starting this weekend and run UV sterilizer and dose MB7.

Note: for dosing MB7, I think I need to have the UV and Skimmer turned off for 4 hours. If anyone has any experience on this, I would like to learn.

 

[Dan5456]

After reading the first 15 pages of this thread about dino.i don't have time to get though the other 200 odd. Is metroplex worth trying and did it work out for the people who started it and also the guy who created thread.thanks

 

[saltwaterpicaso]

copods and phyto made mine way way worst so far blackouts, bleach, ozone and dino x have been keeping it kind of in check not gone but growing slower and If I keep it up I'm thinking eventually it will die off

 

[mcarroll]

PSA: Treat your Dino's here....Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

 

[mcarroll]

For the thread linked above...

Today I updated some of the main text on post #1 of Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether? to hopefully make the thread more useful to folks just showing up.

There are new links to the "new papertowel test" that @taricha posted, as well as search-links to help with ID for specific dino types.

This is the section I updated:

• Phosphate Control

• DO NOT let your phosphates hit or stay at zero.
• See: Bacterivory in algae: A survival strategy during nutrient limitation

• Nitrate Control

• Do not let your nitrates hit or stay at zero.
• See: Putting the N in dinoflagellates

• Starvation should be avoided. Remember that a wide variety of micoorganisms depend on dissolved N and P...and so do corals and healthy algae.

• Confirming the ID of your dinoflagellate is important if possible.

• To begin with, make sure you have Dinos
• Use @taricha's ID Guide on posts #986-987.

• Once you know it's dino's you should ideally figure out what type(s) your tank is hosting.

• Specifically for Ostreopsis, consider skipping ahead to post #86 and #905 as the information is still developing.
• Compare your dino's with photos where @taricha's has already made ID's:
  • ostreopsis
  • prorocentrum
  • amphidinium
  • coolia
  • (other searches coming)

 

[tutmatt3]

Btw this was sent to me from dr tim. Hadn't tried it myself since i ended up removing all my black sand. Unsure if 1x well after its removal is too soon to add in my new white sand

 

[saltwaterpicaso]

wouldn't mind trying it