Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[klp]

Try the sticky at the top of the forum:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

This thread is fairly out of date.

I keep reading as people keep posting on this thread "this tread is out of date use Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?" Can this tread be shelved and made inaccessible?

 

[klp]

I very recently beat Dino, that I believe I caused by carbon dosing (a very small amount) to try to eliminate a bit of hair algae. I fought it without success for months, trying Dino-X, blackouts, etc.. But one comment that I read from a Reefer kept haunting me, "I have never seen Dinoflagellates in a tank that has other algae". Finally that lit a bulb, and I stopped listening to the posts of all the ways to try to kill it, and focused instead on growing macro algae and micro fauna in my tank to out compete it. I dosed Nitrate (>= 5) and Phosphate / Phosphorous (>=.05) to encourage other algae to grow and out-compete the Dino. I also dosed Pods (and Phytoplankton). The tank went through a stage of beautiful colors of red and green cyano (better than the Dino), but once different types of algae started to grow the Dino disappeared. It's all about keeping a healthy tank with a small amount of phosphate and nitrate. I won't ever dose carbon again, and now control nutrients with Chaeto (small fuge with copods, and a PaxBellum n24 algae reactor for nutrient export). It was the best education and worst experience as a Reef Keeper. One last observation: there is a clue in one of the warnings that you read in hundreds of posts, "don't do water changes, it fuels the Dino growth". Most of the posts hypothesize that there is a trace element that fuels the Dino. I am not an expert, but if you take a look at salt mixes, most boast low nitrates and phosphates. Could it be that water changes lower the nutrients that competitors to Dino need to grow? I suggest that water changes are just fine, but afterwards test for Nitrate and Phosphate and raise them both as needed.

I like your comment about water changes not being the issue it is the drop of nutrients. Makes sense.

 

[KMG]

Hey Paul, LOL no worries at all! I understand the frustration maybe as much as anyone. I've been battling these for so long. Anyway, here's a detailed rundown of what I've done and think I've finally beaten them after 5 years...

• Bought myself a good microscope. Spent ~$300 which was tough but figured once and for all I needed to know exactly what I was battling. Best step for me so far. After a short learning curve and tons of help here on R2R I positively identified Dino Amph.
  
  
• Purchased a new Nitrate test kit and Phosphate reagents for my Hanna Low Range PO4 checker. I should call out that I've previously strived for zero nutrients (NO3 and PO4), wrongly. And last year I had luck with when I tried the "dirty" method to fight dinoes, which meant I simply overfed like a beast. Downside was a huge GHA outbreak that took a long time to get in check. No dinos tho! Also wasnt testing so had no idea what I was adding to my tank. Just kept throwing more and more food in there until the Dinos were not noticable.
  
  
• Took baseline measurements for both Nitrates (NO3) and Phosphates (PO4) using my new kits. Also took pictures and kepy a daily log (will share).
  
  
• My goals were to have NO3 between 3 and 12 PPM and Nitrates between 0.01 and 0.10 PPM. Again, previously I had zero measurable NO3 and undetectable PO4.
  
  
• For dosing I used either Stump Remover (for NO3) and Seachem Flourish Phosphorus (for P04). Any time the daily measurement was below my goals I would dose. In the beginning I was just guessing (and still am). I have a 300g total volume system. I would dose between 5ml and 20ml of PO4 at a time. See detailed chart below.
  
  
• Another big part of the plan was to add more micro-life as I call it. Specifically in the form of pods and macroalgae. I actually added some more refugium space too. Went to a place called the Algae Barn online (great place!!!) and ordered some different macros, pods, and also got some free phyto with it. Macro and pods went into my new fuge, existing fuge, and display tank. And dosed Phyto for maybe 10 days. I feel like this is probably an important step.

As you can see from my chart I never had to dose Stump Remover since NO3 was always inline. But I noticed a difference immediately after dosing the PO4 Seachem Phosphorus! After years of starting at this stuff, daily, I have a keen eye for any changes, sadly. As I added PO4 you'll see my readings didnt change but the Dinos did.

I also followed the advice from everyone on here to take it slowly. Thats why after seeing results after day 1 I resisted the temptation to douse the tank with PO4 Seriously, I wanted to take it slow, document everything, and try to learn as much as I could so I can share it here.

I'll post pictures and the full log when I get a chance. I would say right around day 17 the dinos where 95% gone!

I continued, and still do today almost 2 months after starting, to measure pretty much daily and dose as needed. I have a really nice population of pods growing in my fuges.

Oh, and somewhere around day 30 I came home to see my tank looking pristine! It looked like the time I treated it with Chemiclean. All rocks and sand so clean!!!

Since then I've been dealing with a breakout of Diatoms but I think that's b/c I let my RODI filters go and am getting silicates into the tank.

Which brings me to the final learning point, and one I wrote at the top about the microscopes. When I got the Diatoms a few weeks ago they look just like the start of dinos!!!
Previously I would've panicked and freaked out with "they're back!!" cries. This time I took a sample and put it under the scope. I did see a few dinos (as totally expected) but mostly it was diatoms.

So rather than over-react with a "Dinofreakout" I'm treating for diatoms.

Here's the first 2 weeks or so of data.

So short story long, thats how the "balanced" approach worked for me.

Let me know if anyone has questions and I'll try to answer. Will post pictures and more detailed log soon.

Bryan

Hi!
Like the game plan you went by! Gives me hope to turn my tank around
How did you handle the light during this time? Slow start with small % for days or weeks? Mainly blue spectra? Or all in and 100%. Please hell!

Best regards

Per

 

[DiegoLizarazoR]

Hi Guys

Has anyone used these filters to take out the Dinos?

Regards
Diego

http://www.diatomfilters.com/contents/en-us/p2.html


Link 2

http://www.mcssl.com/store/vortexinnerspaceproductsinc

 

[CherBear811]

Update for my frag tank

Cell reproduction has come to a standstill that I can see based on daily inspection.
I am still catching the cells at night in the hang on filter being used.
I am having to clean this daily


Now remember when you see these physically in your tank your talking about possibly millions of cells. So cleanup may be tedious.

I am wondering what your long term results were with the metroplex and if you think a diatom filter would speed up particulate dino removal? I have a diy skimmer on my nano but no sump, so filter socks aren't an option. I could put the marineland diatom filter in the back corner of the tank though. I am wondering if the metro worked, long term, and also if it can be used with flucanazole on an ongoing basis?

 

[Richards_reef]

I am wondering what your long term results were with the metroplex and if you think a diatom filter would speed up particulate dino removal? I have a diy skimmer on my nano but no sump, so filter socks aren't an option. I could put the marineland diatom filter in the back corner of the tank though. I am wondering if the metro worked, long term, and also if it can be used with flucanazole on an ongoing basis?

Metro didn't work for me, I believe it messed with my corals as well. They lost a lot of color.

 

[ncaldwell]

Metro did nothing for me either after a month so I stopped use

 

[CherBear811]

Anyone have any updates on using the micro fauna abundance strategy?

 

[DenverSaltyFarm]

I’m battling a bad case of Dinos and someone mentioned you typically don’t see Dinos in a tank with algae. I definitely don’t have an algae problem and have been doing heavy feedings on the tank. At this point I’m trying to grow algae in the tank to compete with the dinos. Do you all think I could turn off my skimmer to aid algae? The tank is not heavily stocked and only 4 months old I’m pretty sure I don’t have the biodiversity I need atm........I think in future tanks I’m going to use live rock

 

[Ahbaloch]

Anyone want to help?

 

[Mjl714]

Anyone want to help?

The Marineland Polishing Filter with diatom powder and allowing nutrients to rise worked for me. It took several weeks, but improvement was visible.

 

[Mjl714]

I’d also look at the first post by @mcarrol on dinos are you tired of battling altogether, lots of great and helpful information.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...ou-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/unread

 

[DenverSaltyFarm]

Anyone want to help?

A couple of things. do you know your nutrient lvls with an accurate test kit like the red sea algae control kit? also looking at the photo im not seeing much of a clean up crew and highly recommend astrea turbo snails can get them for good price on auction sights. I battled a very bad case of dinos and algae because my tank was too clean and no good bacteria competing with the dinos. I tried h2o2, blackouts, even dosed bleach to the tank but still had a bit of dinos. what worked was dosing sodium nitrate to get my nitrates to 80 that stopped everything from growing any more. I then purchased a 50 pack of astrea turbo snails and they did work to my 120. every other clean up crew was killed by the dinos but those snails did great. I then brought my nutrient lvls back down slowly to a clean tank of .5 nitrates and .08 phosphates. those snails are a workhorse and my tank is 100% clear. there is another great video from Than at TITAL Gardens using those snails for a massive outbreak on their growout tanks with great success.

i think that test kit is huge in combating dinos along with those snails

if you go the clean tank rout at the end lways a good idea to drop alk to mid 7's so you dont burn your corals

 

[rog2961]

just raise p and n watch it bloom a bit, but keep it up. they will dissapear. if you impatient use a tiny bit of bleach, and i mean tiny. I did 3ml a day on a 300g for a week or so

 

[CwStrife]

Anyone want to help?

Reef Flux should clear that nasty hair algae up in a few weeks. I've run the stuff at 3x recommended dose and it knocks out all the algae cold. Hope this helps!

 

[Reefnewb]

just raise p and n watch it bloom a bit, but keep it up. they will dissapear. if you impatient use a tiny bit of bleach, and i mean tiny. I did 3ml a day on a 300g for a week or so

You can’t have fish in the system when you dose bleach tho correct?

 

[drawman]

You can’t have fish in the system when you dose bleach tho correct?

At a very small level yes but I cannot remember those numbers.

 

[SeaDweller]

A couple of things. do you know your nutrient lvls with an accurate test kit like the red sea algae control kit? also looking at the photo im not seeing much of a clean up crew and highly recommend astrea turbo snails can get them for good price on auction sights. I battled a very bad case of dinos and algae because my tank was too clean and no good bacteria competing with the dinos. I tried h2o2, blackouts, even dosed bleach to the tank but still had a bit of dinos. what worked was dosing sodium nitrate to get my nitrates to 80 that stopped everything from growing any more. I then purchased a 50 pack of astrea turbo snails and they did work to my 120. every other clean up crew was killed by the dinos but those snails did great. I then brought my nutrient lvls back down slowly to a clean tank of .5 nitrates and .08 phosphates. those snails are a workhorse and my tank is 100% clear. there is another great video from Than at TITAL Gardens using those snails for a massive outbreak on their growout tanks with great success.

i think that test kit is huge in combating dinos along with those snails

if you go the clean tank rout at the end lways a good idea to drop alk to mid 7's so you dont burn your corals

How did you bring your NO3 from 80 to .5?

 

[CoralReefer1019]

What was the cure for this?

 

[FFJB]

What was the cure for this?

Still looking for one