Disc Pricing Update

Discussion in 'MindStream' started by Step Ahead Innovations, Sep 1, 2015.

  1. jerseypete

    jerseypete Active Member

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    Wishful thinking. They don't put any data out there on accuracy. Pricing? How can they price this while still drumming up money for R&D and production? MACNA is trying to stir up interest. But nobody is putting up dollars to fund this. This company has been posting this on facebook for a few years now. Having a great idea and a viable product to bring to market are 2 totally different things. I great idea yes. A company that can make a profit. Not really. Just think they would have to have 1000 subscribers to their monthly disks just to employ three 80k a year employees. And the would probably need a million just to get the 1000 units to market.
     

  2. lysaer

    lysaer Active Member

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    They have repeatedly said they do have other investors. The implication is that the other investments are enough to bring the product to market, but they're asking for additional investment from a wider pool of investors (us) to bring it to market faster. That's my reading of the situation, at least.
     
  3. lysaer

    lysaer Active Member

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    However, that being said.

    I am disappointed in the monthly subscription cost based on one disc per month for a year assumption. I do hope they have other options, because for the less intense hobbyist, the declination of accuracy is not as big a deal as for some others. That might depend on the expected declination of accuracy.

    @Step Ahead Innovations : Do you have an expected or predicted declination curve? Are we talking a discrepancy of .001 for 30 days and then .5 for the next 10 days, or is it a steeper devolution? Is said declination affected by the frequency of checks? I think that if checks are done every, say, 3 hours than every 20 minutes, that would imply the discs would last longer. And logically that twice daily checks could make the discs last up to several months. That could be a HUGE difference for the majority of hobbyists as to investing in this. I, personally, would be willing to pay a base dics price plus monthly usage fee if this were the case. $35 for the disc, $5/month usage fee, and only replacing the disc when it becomes too degraded to utilize.
     
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  4. jerseypete

    jerseypete Active Member

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    Meaning their other investor's said I put enough into this. They are saying they need money for R&D and production. Faster then what? What date has anyone gave to make it faster than?
     
  5. acolotto

    acolotto Active Member

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    I agree. I hope this comes to market as it will advance the hobby. Just skeptical on pricing of the unit and disks, as I don't even know if the unit would last a year in a reef tank. Yes the fact it test all day could be beneficial, but I need/want to know how and why this thing is so accurate to be able to believe the results and justify the price.
     
  6. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Formerly icecool2 R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Showcase Editor Delaware Reef Club Build Thread Contributor

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    For the record, they are backed by venture capital. Second Crack Ventures.
     
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  7. ReefMadScientist

    ReefMadScientist Valuable Member

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    So I was thinking. I know this is a HUGE LONG SHOT. @Step Ahead Innovations - would your systems be able to evolve into its own apex-style configuration? I was thinking. How cool would it be for your disks to interact with a dosing unit. Say I have a disk monitoring alkalinity in my tank and it reads low levels due to coral growth, etc. etc. Is it possible for your technology to adapt later on to be able to dose the calibrated amount for specified levels the user sets?

    If so, you can have my money.
     
  8. LouieP

    LouieP Active Member R2R Supporter West Palm Beach Reefer Build Thread Contributor

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    I can see this happening but I don't use a doser since I have a CA reactor. Those of you that have dosers should be all over this. You will be able to monitor your consumption rate so easily and make the necessary adjustments. For me there have been times that I get lazy & don't want to test my chemicals and this will do it for me which will make my reef keeping so much easier and that's why Im a backer.
     
  9. sonnus

    sonnus Member

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    This has been the idea since the beginning. I think if Mindstream doesn't ultimately work together with Neptune then they'll most likely be some other collaboration or possibly they'll develop their own entirely new controller. Since the Mindstream will be cloud based it should be easy to gather this information with some sort of script/code and incorporate it into an aquarium controller code. There might be legal issues with a company doing this without Mindstream's permission though.
     
  10. Diesel

    Diesel String Stalker. R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Photo of the Month Award R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2018

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    To shy on time but do we even know if there will be a charge to use their Data/Cloud services to read the Mindstream?
    I'm a early backer but if there's a charge for that I'm out!
    Reasons enough to discuss this as a manufacture wasn't there and on this point it can be from $0.01 up to $??.??.
    I don't mind to spend the $420 on disc per year.
    If APEX is going to charge for hobbyist to login their Fusion cloud system I'm sure a whole lot of ppl would go with Reef Angel or Reef Keeper.
    Same counts for Ecotech to be logged in to ESL................ NO CHARGE!! but if there was one not a whole lot of ppl would have Radions, Vortechs and Vectra's now.
    Just keep it plain, Unit and the monthly Disc, either on yearly subscription (which I like btw) or for a higher price on individual.
    Maybe they should add to that what Triton does with their test, 6 months or a year supply, you can decide if you want to run it every month or
    bi-monthly.
    When no self control on the Mindstream it's doomed to be failed.
     
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  11. TheEngineer

    TheEngineer Formerly icecool2 R2R Supporter Reef Squad R2R Excellence Award Showcase Editor Delaware Reef Club Build Thread Contributor

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    I asked the question, but haven't gotten an answer yet. Their posts seem to indicate that each disc you buy entitles you to 30 days of data access.
     
  12. jerseypete

    jerseypete Active Member

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    I probably wouldn't do it. For the same reason I would never run my Ato off a salinity probe.
     
  13. acolotto

    acolotto Active Member

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    Companies do not share their cloud systems! Way to much red tape to cross over and the increase in risk of a security breach is not worth to most of these companies. One security flaw/breach can destroy a whole company. Not like there is much these companies have to offer in the personal info section but remember all these units are connected to our home routers and computers. Secondly why would Apex want to work with mindstream? They would have to pay to use mindstream, IMO if this does not come to market fast and does not do extremely well, another controller company thats dominating the market already in the controller side of it (Neptune, DA, GHL, ecotech, etc.) will create their own version that would be cheaper or just buy mindstream and make it their own. They all already have their version of cloud systems, controllers that control individual equipment based on coding, and id say most of the reefers that are interested in the product already own some sort of aquarium controller so they wouldnt have to spend $100,000's if not millions of dollars trying acquire new customers. Just in the sense of business it makes no sense for the existing controller companies to give access to all there customers and services to another company when they can easily make their own version of mindstream and make 100% profit compared to only a royalty of probably at most 20%.
     
  14. lexinverts

    lexinverts Active Member

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    They state that the disks and "associated data services" are 34.95. So, the data services are included in the cost of each disk. Whether the data services for each disk are limited to 30 days is not something that has been stated by them. It's possible that they are still working this out internally. I think the message here is that we would prefer for the data services to not be limited in time for an individual disk. Given that SAI has suggested from the beginning that we should experiment with the devices to see how long they last in our individual tanks, I think that this wouldn't be an unreasonable position to take.

    Alternatively, even if the data services are limited to 30 days, if I determine that the accuracy is good in my tank for 2 months, rather than 1, it may still be cost effective for me to purchase individually priced disks over the subscription.
     
  15. lexinverts

    lexinverts Active Member

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    Then why does Apex collaborate with any of the other companies? Ever heard of "Apex ready?" :)
     
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  16. Diesel

    Diesel String Stalker. R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Photo of the Month Award R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2018

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    Due to this statement I canceled my backing into this unit.
    It is a flip/flop from earlier statements that kickstarter wasn't needed to get it of the ground, now you tell us different.
    I'm a business person myself but if flip/flopping start to happen before it got released that raises a red flag to me.
    I might be in once it been on the market and we all know and can see how this exactly works.
    @Step Ahead Innovations wish you guys a good show Macna at and we all hope that it turns out the way us Hobbyist are thinking it would be.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
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  17. lexinverts

    lexinverts Active Member

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    Below is what they posted earlier. Please note what it says in bold. They just say they want the Kickstarter in order to avoid delays.

    "Hi everyone, thanks for your patience as we get ready for the upcoming MACNA conference! We think we all might need a little bit of a reset here to refocus the conversation. We want to reiterate that this campaign is NOT a formal product launch. We are still a young company trying to complete funding so we can offer an incredible product, and we are utilizing the Kickstarter platform to raise the capital we need to complete testing and production to get the MindStream monitor to market. That said, while we would love to fully answer every question you pose to our team, we still need to finish R&D/testing to be able to provide the information many of you are asking for, and your Kickstarter dollars will allow us to do that. We have provided all sharable data as it has been available thus far, and we will continue to do so.

    As we've stated, while we will bring this product to market regardless, we are counting on this Kickstarter project to ensure we don't encounter delays. We have seen very positive results from our testing thus far, and we have no doubt that when we launch the MindStream monitor, we will not only be able to provide in-depth insight on performance and longevity but that we will also deliver a product that performs as promised. But at this point, like many startups, we are looking to the people we think can benefit from our product to help us get over the finish line.

    Additionally, we hope you'll keep in mind that the MindStream system is not an incremental improvement on the testing approaches you use now. Our solution is a radical shift in how our hobby (and beyond) views and manages aquarium water chemistry, and we believe it will significantly alter how aquarists will maintain and enjoy their tanks.
    [​IMG]

    We are grateful for all of the support, enthusiasm, questions, and even debate as we join this passionate community of aquarists, and we look forward to completing this campaign to get the MindStream monitor in your hands as quickly as possible."
     
  18. acolotto

    acolotto Active Member

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    Because those companies are top of the line in the industry as apex is. They already have customer bases so they just combine and both benefit from it. Also Apex requires you buy an apex made module to use most of these "APEX READY" items and use the Apex cloud system. This company as of now is nothing, not saying it wont reach great places but at this moment they are smaller then an ant. They use a kickstarter to raise money to prove to their venture capitalist they can make money when brought to market. Well they failed there as they are not going to reach their goal, none of the beta tester units or any of the units people backed are going to be valid as you all will be getting your money back. So now they have to pay themselves for r&d. Its not a collaboration either with the other companies, apex makes it so when you use a wxm and a vortech its all ran off of fusion, nothing to do with vortech anymore their. Why do you think apex is coming out with PMK, WAV, DOS, the dosing containers, etc. The new wavs are supposed to be just as good as tunze and vortechs and they can run the same profiles, eventually for apex users these probably will become one of the most used powerheads.
     
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  19. lexinverts

    lexinverts Active Member

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    I could repeat what I said earlier about Mindstream's patents, but I seem to be spinning my wheels here. Have a good day. :)
     
  20. Diesel

    Diesel String Stalker. R2R Supporter Reef Spotlight Award Photo of the Month Award R2R Excellence Award Partner Member 2018

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    Thanks, I've tried to tell myself different but as of now it won't change my actions.
    I hope that this product will make it to the market and has good feedback.
    Till then I will wait to see how this will turn out in a few months from now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2015
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