Disease ID: Clownfish in brand new tank shedding slime coating

[Joe Johnson]

This tank is 2 weeks old and I added 2 clownfish 5 days ago to start the cycling process . The male clown has been developing a slimy looking coat over the past 3 days. He continues to swim and eat normally and otherwise seems fine. After researching the symptoms I am worried it could by Brooklynella or have read it could be Amyloodinium. The symptoms don’t seem a good match for either, except the slimy coating, because the fish doesn’t seem to have any of them. Is this a disease or could I be missing something else? My water parameters have been constant - see below.

PH - 8.0-8.1
Temp - 77.2-77.6
Ammonia - 0 (notched up to 0.2 today)
Salinity - 1.024

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don’t recommend using clownfish to cycle a tank, they don’t tolerate ammonia well. What ammonia test are you using, some a pretty unreliable.
That said, I worry that the clown may have Brooklynella. Is it breathing rapidly? The other clown is fine?
Jay

 

[Joe Johnson]

I don’t recommend using clownfish to cycle a tank, they don’t tolerate ammonia well. What ammonia test are you using, some a pretty unreliable.
That said, I worry that the clown may have Brooklynella. Is it breathing rapidly? The other clown is fine?
Jay

I am using the Red Sea Marine Care test kit. No rapid breathing on the male, the female (so far) looks completely unaffected. I keep coming back to Brooklynella as well but my reading led me to think it’d move a lot faster. This fish has been showing symptoms for 3 days.

I’m within the 7 day window so I am considering returning to my LFS.

2 questions for you:
1. What fish should I use for cycling?
2. Or can I continue the cycle without fish? If so, how?

If it is Brooklynella I’ll want to leave the tank empty for at least 6 weeks (thankfully these two fish are the only inhabitants).

Thanks so much for your help. I’ve been a reefing enthusiast for decades but finally took the plunge and started my first tank. What an introduction!

 

[Cell]

Go buy a bottle of Bio-Spira ASAP please for the sake of the fish.

 

[Joe Johnson]

Go buy a bottle of Bio-Spira ASAP please for the sake of the fish.

I added micro-bacter when I first started the tank which was 8 days before the fish were added. I tested nitrite this evening as well, also 0. Does Bio-spira add something else that micro-bacter doesn’t?

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is Brooklynella. Most similar symptomatically to Oodinum, this is also a parasite that primarily attacks the gills first. At the onset, fish may scrape up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Quickly the fish will become lethargic, refuse to eat, and its colors will fade. The most noticeable difference that sets Brooklynella apart from Oodinium is the heavy amount of slime that is produced by a fish that has contracted this parasite. As the disease progresses, a thick whitish mucus covers the body. This will usually start at the head and spread outward across the entire body. Skin lesions appear and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections to arise, such as redness and fin rot.
The best and most effective treatment for Brooklynella is formaldehyde alone which is contained in API General Cure. It has been found to be an effective treatment for Brooklynella as well as other parasitic diseases. Initially, all fish are given a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration, followed by continued treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank (QT). Of course, the longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment, the more effective it will be.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief may be provided by giving fish a FW bath or dip. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems. Once the initial dip or bath is done, place the fish into a QT under hyposalinity to help keep any possible new free-swimming protists from infecting the fish again, and then obtain a formalin medication as soon as possible to begin treatment.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I am using the Red Sea Marine Care test kit. No rapid breathing on the male, the female (so far) looks completely unaffected. I keep coming back to Brooklynella as well but my reading led me to think it’d move a lot faster. This fish has been showing symptoms for 3 days.

I’m within the 7 day window so I am considering returning to my LFS.

2 questions for you:
1. What fish should I use for cycling?
2. Or can I continue the cycle without fish? If so, how?

If it is Brooklynella I’ll want to leave the tank empty for at least 6 weeks (thankfully these two fish are the only inhabitants).

Thanks so much for your help. I’ve been a reefing enthusiast for decades but finally took the plunge and started my first tank. What an introduction!

I prefer to cycle tanks with ammonium chloride. Dr. Tim’s sells a version.

I can’t confirm Brooklynella due to the longer time frame here and this being a tank raised clown. Still, can’t rule it out. The other two options would be excess mucus production due to some irritation or bacterial disease. I posted an article here on mucus in the article section, the PDF download is on the right side of the page. I’m on my phone so I can’t link it for you.
Jay

 

[RobertTheNurse]

This is Brooklynella. Most similar symptomatically to Oodinum, this is also a parasite that primarily attacks the gills first. At the onset, fish may scrape up against objects, rapid respiration develops, and fish often gasp for air at the surface as the gills become clogged with mucus. Quickly the fish will become lethargic, refuse to eat, and its colors will fade. The most noticeable difference that sets Brooklynella apart from Oodinium is the heavy amount of slime that is produced by a fish that has contracted this parasite. As the disease progresses, a thick whitish mucus covers the body. This will usually start at the head and spread outward across the entire body. Skin lesions appear and it is not uncommon for signs of secondary bacterial infections to arise, such as redness and fin rot.
The best and most effective treatment for Brooklynella is formaldehyde alone which is contained in API General Cure. It has been found to be an effective treatment for Brooklynella as well as other parasitic diseases. Initially, all fish are given a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration, followed by continued treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank (QT). Of course, the longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment, the more effective it will be.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief may be provided by giving fish a FW bath or dip. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems. Once the initial dip or bath is done, place the fish into a QT under hyposalinity to help keep any possible new free-swimming protists from infecting the fish again, and then obtain a formalin medication as soon as possible to begin treatment.

Wow. Awesome

 

[RobertTheNurse]

Hopefully the fish make it. Or you move them into quarentine; also, did you say you are thinking about taking them back to the LFS?

As hard as it is in this hobby, I decided to cycle my DT fishless. I used live sand and dosed "bacteria in a bottle" and literally let things "happen" for about 4 weeks. Then I slowly introduced livestock. Started with snails and crabs.

Never had an ammonia spike since. Been a year in a month.

I'd recommend moving to a quarentine and let the DT sit fishless (others can chime in or do some research into how long to remain fishless) so that you can rid what ever parasite has contaminated your tank.

 

[Joe Johnson]

I prefer to cycle tanks with ammonium chloride. Dr. Tim’s sells a version.

I can’t confirm Brooklynella due to the longer time frame here and this being a tank raised clown. Still, can’t rule it out. The other two options would be excess mucus production due to some irritation or bacterial disease. I posted an article here on mucus in the article section, the PDF download is on the right side of the page. I’m on my phone so I can’t link it for you.
Jay

Thanks, @Jay Hemdal ! I’ll have to order some.

Hopefully the fish make it. Or you move them into quarentine; also, did you say you are thinking about taking them back to the LFS?

As hard as it is in this hobby, I decided to cycle my DT fishless. I used live sand and dosed "bacteria in a bottle" and literally let things "happen" for about 4 weeks. Then I slowly introduced livestock. Started with snails and crabs.

Never had an ammonia spike since. Been a year in a month.

I'd recommend moving to a quarentine and let the DT sit fishless (others can chime in or do some research into how long to remain fishless) so that you can rid what ever parasite has contaminated your tank.

It looks like I should also get into setting up a QT tank for these two. I was thinking they may be better off back at the LFS as my tank is basically a brand new setup and I don’t have the equipment for a QT and would need to order or pick up. Do I need to worry about the lack of biological filtration since it’s such a new tank and I won’t have any mature media or rock to add to the QT?

 

[TheXpander]

There is a wealth of excellent information within here on how to cycle the tank properly without adding fish, this thread really helped me get my head round things;

Cycling an Aquarium

I’ve had my 13 gallon up and running for a little over 72 hours now with dry rock and dry sand. I put in one dose of Fritz 9 on Thursday and then another full dose in at the 48 hour mark just to give the bacteria a chance to settle. Is the concentration of bacteria in the two full doses enough...

www.reef2reef.com

Patience is the key with this hobby, things don’t happen quickly and it’s worth the wait!
I would agree, QT and treat the clowns (I doubt your LFS would take them back diseased, but if they offer I would do it!)
Personally I would research (or can anyone offer the best advice)how to ensure the DT is completely parasite clear once the fish are removed, then start from scratch. Add with nitrifying bacteria (Fritz or Dr. Tim’s) then dose with Dr. Tim’s Ammonium Chloride and wait for the ammonia to drop (you can use a Seachem monitor so your not running ammonia tests every day). Once the tank can consume 2ppm ammonia in 24 hours you can do a large water change then add your first fish.
Fish in cycling is brutal for the fish and can easily be done without them, you just need patience.

 

[Joe Johnson]

Thanks everyone for the advice here! I got in contact with the the LFS (Old Town Aquarium here in Chicago). They accepted the fish back no problem and were incredibly helpful with advice about next steps and what to do. The fish weren’t in terrible condition but they agreed it looked like Brooklynella - the shop is quarantining and treating them.

I’m going to leave the tank empty for the next 6-8 weeks to hopefully starve whatever was afflicting the fish and will use the dr Tim’s ammonium chloride to continue cycling (as well as the Micro Bacter starter). I will slowly add cleanup crew as algae starts to blossom. Water tests showed nothing wrong with the water.

Any advice on my planned next steps would be welcome. As a new reefer I know there are MANY things I have yet to learn. Still, I’m excited to be on this journey!

 

[RobertTheNurse]

Good plan!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks everyone for the advice here! I got in contact with the the LFS (Old Town Aquarium here in Chicago). They accepted the fish back no problem and were incredibly helpful with advice about next steps and what to do. The fish weren’t in terrible condition but they agreed it looked like Brooklynella - the shop is quarantining and treating them.

I’m going to leave the tank empty for the next 6-8 weeks to hopefully starve whatever was afflicting the fish and will use the dr Tim’s ammonium chloride to continue cycling (as well as the Micro Bacter starter). I will slowly add cleanup crew as algae starts to blossom. Water tests showed nothing wrong with the water.

Any advice on my planned next steps would be welcome. As a new reefer I know there are MANY things I have yet to learn. Still, I’m excited to be on this journey!

How is the "new" Old Town Aquarium? I used to shop at the store on Wells St. back in the mid 80's. One of the very best stores back then.

Jay

 

[TheXpander]

I’m so glad to hear the LFS tools the fish back for your sake as it will allow you to concentrate on the DT. Agreed I think it’s a great plan!

 

[Joe Johnson]

How is the "new" Old Town Aquarium? I used to shop at the store on Wells St. back in the mid 80's. One of the very best stores back then.

Jay

I can’t say I ever went to the “old” shop in old town but the new shop was great. It feels like a smaller store but the staff were incredibly knowledgeable. They are just the closest store to me so I do want to visit other stores in the Chicago area. Any recommendations? I’m not above taking a joyride on a Saturday afternoon to just visit and window shop.

Tank update: Dr Tim’s Ammonium Chloride has been great. Ammonia spiked after adding at 2.5ppm and has fallen to under 2. Nitrites are going up again (hit 1ppm last night). Nitrates are finally coming up and are around 25ppm. I’m hoping to find some chaeto soon to get a fuge started and help control nitrates/phosphates and maybe alleviate the need for frequent water changes once the cycle is complete. I’ve kept the lights off so algae is minimal but wonder if I should start adding a snail or two soon?

 

[RobertTheNurse]

I can’t say I ever went to the “old” shop in old town but the new shop was great. It feels like a smaller store but the staff were incredibly knowledgeable. They are just the closest store to me so I do want to visit other stores in the Chicago area. Any recommendations? I’m not above taking a joyride on a Saturday afternoon to just visit and window shop.

Tank update: Dr Tim’s Ammonium Chloride has been great. Ammonia spiked after adding at 2.5ppm and has fallen to under 2. Nitrites are going up again (hit 1ppm last night). Nitrates are finally coming up and are around 25ppm. I’m hoping to find some chaeto soon to get a fuge started and help control nitrates/phosphates and maybe alleviate the need for frequent water changes once the cycle is complete. I’ve kept the lights off so algae is minimal but wonder if I should start adding a snail or two soon?

I waited a few weeks to let the cycle complete. You'll love yourself in the end for doing so. Then start to add some snails once the diatoms start. How long since you started everything again?

 

[Joe Johnson]

I waited a few weeks to let the cycle complete. You'll love yourself in the end for doing so. Then start to add some snails once the diatoms start. How long since you started everything again?

Last week was the 1 month mark for setting up and adding saltwater. I added the two clownfish a little over a week later (and had them about a week). The tank has been fishless for about 2.5 weeks now. I am planning to leave the lights off for the first few months to build up a cleanup crew and get the fish settled.

To continue feeding the nitrifying bacteria should I repeat the Ammonium Chloride dose? I’ve read of some others that have continued dosing and in gradually higher amounts to build up bacteria populations. I’d do it if it helps since I’ve got about another 6 fishless weeks. I won’t rush to add cleanup crew since it sounds like they’re not necessary until closer to when I’ll turn the lights on.

 

[RobertTheNurse]

Last week was the 1 month mark for setting up and adding saltwater. I added the two clownfish a little over a week later (and had them about a week). The tank has been fishless for about 2.5 weeks now. I am planning to leave the lights off for the first few months to build up a cleanup crew and get the fish settled.

To continue feeding the nitrifying bacteria should I repeat the Ammonium Chloride dose? I’ve read of some others that have continued dosing and in gradually higher amounts to build up bacteria populations. I’d do it if it helps since I’ve got about another 6 fishless weeks. I won’t rush to add cleanup crew since it sounds like they’re not necessary until closer to when I’ll turn the lights on.

I did not dose ammonia. I waited 6 weeks and let my tank do its thing before I added anything. Let my live sand work its thing with the nitrafying bacteria.