Display Tank Water Level Slowly Rising - Return Chamber Remains Constant

[ca1ore]

I've read a lot of posts about full-siphon being one of the main ways to make a durso and the overflow weir quiet, but what I'm hearing from all of you is that I need to change the water level (with the vent open to the air) so that it is not full-siphon.

Yes, but all the safe full siphon drain systems use secondary open channel redundant drains. Thus my suggestion earlier to change yours to a dual drain herbie. That’s what I did when I ran marineland tanks. This is probably the most sensible explanation ......

Herbie Overflow Plumbing Guide for Quiet Reef Aquariums - gmacreef

The Herbie method can quiet down your aquarium drain and eliminate microbubbles. The guide includes helpful diagrams and explains each component.

gmacreef.com

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Simple and quiet--- http://maggiemuffler.com/

 

[Brew12]

Great! Thank you so much! So, you would suggest that I open the durso valve to lower the water level in the overflow, then adjust the return pump. I think the noise that was bothering me when I had it like this at first was the water flowing over the weirs and splashing down into the overflow. Is there any easy way to make this quiet?

Open the valve all the way and then set your flow. The start closing the valve until water in the overflow starts to rise. Once you see that open it back a little and you should be close. If it starts "flushing" like a toilet where the level goes up and down you need to open the valve a little more.

Is it possible to reduce the splashing sound, or is that something I would need a different type of drain to accomplish?

I had the same problem when I ran an overflow similar to yours. Eventually, algae will grow which will quiet it down. I wasn't patient so I took some coarse sponge from a HOB filter and used it to slow down the flow to quiet it down.

 

[joe1133]

Open the valve all the way and then set your flow. The start closing the valve until water in the overflow starts to rise. Once you see that open it back a little and you should be close. If it starts "flushing" like a toilet where the level goes up and down you need to open the valve a little more.


I had the same problem when I ran an overflow similar to yours. Eventually, algae will grow which will quiet it down. I wasn't patient so I took some coarse sponge from a HOB filter and used it to slow down the flow to quiet it down.

Great! Thank you! Would it be acceptable to drill a new hole in the Durso pipe and put a rigid air tube in higher than the weirs so that the water level could be higher in the overflow and the drain still get air?

 

[Brew12]

Great! Thank you! Would it be acceptable to drill a new hole in the Durso pipe and put a rigid air tube in higher than the weirs so that the water level could be higher in the overflow and the drain still get air?

You can do that, but don't get it too high. You still need it to function as an emergency drain.

 

[joe1133]

You can do that, but don't get it too high. You still need it to function as an emergency drain.

Great! Well, I did it, and I don’t hear any air.

Should I hear air coming down the drain? I do until the overflow water level is a certain height, then I don’t hear it anymore. I don’t understand why!

 

[motortrendz]

You can put an air hose into the bent hose and cap.it with a valve to adjust the air flow allowed into the drain which will make it almost completely quiet at the correct water level

 

[joe1133]

Hey everyone! I adjusted the durso pipe to the right height now. I noticed that when the water gets to a certain level in the overflow, I don’t hardly hear any air coming down the hose, but when it’s a bit lower, I hear constant air coming down the hose. The vent hole is uncovered in both scenarios, so I don’t understand.

Should I hear a lot of air coming down the hose or just a bit?

 

[joe1133]

Hey Everyone! Just an update...Everything has been working great for a week, then today, I go home on my lunch break, and the water level in the display was high again!!

It has remained constant for a week with air coming down the pipe, then all of the sudden (today) - the water level was high in the DT again.

I adjusted it and opened up the flow a bit, and it has leveled out again, but it is considerably louder than it was previously (because I had to adjust the flow...etc). I checked to make sure no snails or anything were covered the vent holes...etc, and nothing was covering them. The filter sock was a bit dirty, so I changed it, but I'm not sure that would have affected it. Maybe something with the ATO?

I don't understand!

 

[BeejReef]

It could be a dual problem.

The original repliers detailed your problem with a full-siphon single drain.
The ATO may be adding to the problem. When the overflow slows (for whatever reason) a higher percentage of your set water volume is in the DT. This means less in the sump = a lower water level in the sump. The ATO will kick on to bring the sump up to level.

It's not just a water level issue, the problem is also causing your salinity to fluctuate.

It's also possible that your return pump's output is a little variable. It runs along fine, then a piece of algae flushes through, or a bend in the hose straightens, and it's suddenly a little stronger.

Either way, it comes back to your overflow drain. A single drain can't be tuned/equalized to the volume of the return pump. One or the other will always change over time.

 

[joe1133]

It could be a dual problem.

The original repliers detailed your problem with a full-siphon single drain.
The ATO may be adding to the problem. When the overflow slows (for whatever reason) a higher percentage of your set water volume is in the DT. This means less in the sump = a lower water level in the sump. The ATO will kick on to bring the sump up to level.

It's not just a water level issue, the problem is also causing your salinity to fluctuate.

It's also possible that your return pump's output is a little variable. It runs along fine, then a piece of algae flushes through, or a bend in the hose straightens, and it's suddenly a little stronger.

Either way, it comes back to your overflow drain. A single drain can't be tuned/equalized to the volume of the return pump. One or the other will always change over time.

Thank you for your response! What would you suggest then? Is it possible to drain the overflow and drill another hole to make another drain? Is that even possible with the sand/rock/livestock still in the tank? The overflow would be empty.

 

[billwill]

I'd say your return pump is moving a little more water than your overflow can handle. Simply throttle it back a bit, remove some of the water in the sump back to ATO level, then fine tune from there.

 

[joe1133]

I'd say your return pump is moving a little more water than your overflow can handle. Simply throttle it back a bit, remove some of the water in the sump back to ATO level, then fine tune from there.

Thanks for your response. I'm not sure that's the issue, as the level has remained consistent for over a week. It seems it has more to do with the durso type of drain and the inconsistencies with that.

 

[BeejReef]

Thank you for your response! What would you suggest then? Is it possible to drain the overflow and drill another hole to make another drain? Is that even possible with the sand/rock/livestock still in the tank? The overflow would be empty.

You're still running a single drain, correct? If I read the thread right, you adjusted the water level a bit and elevated your air hole. I can't take any credit for the suggestion. I think I actually read it earlier in this thread.

What I would do is to move your return out of the overflow box and simply loop it over the back of your tank. That will free up the second drilled hole inside your overflow. You can use that bulkhead (hopefully it's a slip fitting on the top side) to simply insert an emergency drain pipe. Below, you'll have a second drain to your sump.

It's a herbie overflow http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

The emergency drain sets your water level. Just cut the pipe to the desired length. All the variability goes away along with most of the noise. You can use a valve on your main drain to handle 98% of the draining w a quiet full siphon. The water level in the overflow will slowly edge up to the emergency and just barely trickle down it.

So, now you have a ton of extra drainage capacity too and a backup as well. If the main clogs, the emergency takes over (noisily) so you have a heads up to a problem. The emergency is unrestricted, so it has even more draining ability than your main.

If you don't want your return looped over the back, you may be able to lower the water level and drill the back of the tank to tidy it up without tearing it down. To redo your existing overflow with another hole would be a full teardown. Just have a friend w a baseball glove or a fishing net cuz half ur fish will probably jump for it with all the noise!

Credit to ca1ore for the first mention of herbie... may have gotten lost in the shuffle.

 

[joe1133]

You're still running a single drain, correct? If I read the thread right, you adjusted the water level a bit and elevated your air hole. I can't take any credit for the suggestion. I think I actually read it earlier in this thread.

What I would do is to move your return out of the overflow box and simply loop it over the back of your tank. That will free up the second drilled hole inside your overflow. You can use that bulkhead (hopefully it's a slip fitting on the top side) to simply insert an emergency drain pipe. Below, you'll have a second drain to your sump.

It's a herbie overflow http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

The emergency drain sets your water level. Just cut the pipe to the desired length. All the variability goes away along with most of the noise. You can use a valve on your main drain to handle 98% of the draining w a quiet full siphon. The water level in the overflow will slowly edge up to the emergency and just barely trickle down it.

So, now you have a ton of extra drainage capacity too and a backup as well. If the main clogs, the emergency takes over (noisily) so you have a heads up to a problem. The emergency is unrestricted, so it has even more draining ability than your main.

If you don't want your return looped over the back, you may be able to lower the water level and drill the back of the tank to tidy it up without tearing it down. To redo your existing overflow with another hole would be a full teardown. Just have a friend w a baseball glove or a fishing net cuz half ur fish will probably jump for it with all the noise!

Credit to ca1ore for the first mention of herbie... may have gotten lost in the shuffle.

THANK YOU so much! You, along with everyone else on this thread has been so helpful. Thank you for breaking it down and putting all of the information together in an easy to understand way.

I got the durso working correctly at the right water-level, but I know that it's only a matter of time until issues arise again! I'm going to do what you and others suggested by converting it to a herbie style overflow. I'll just run my return over the rim of the tank. It's not ideal, but I think I will feel much better about this setup.

Just for understanding's sake...with a full-siphon durso drain, the water level kept fluctuating because the drain was vented (at first). I'm assuming this continues to happen with a herbie drain - expect for the fact that it's not noticeable because of the emergency drain. I'm assuming that the water may still fluctuate from time to time but is solved by the emergency drain. Am I understanding that correctly?

 

[BeejReef]

The tank and sump levels shouldn't/won't vary with a herbie overflow. You'll set it up so your return pump pushes slightly more water than your main drain can handle. The water level should always end up right at the height of the emergency pipe bc it's capable of hundreds of gallons per hour and is only being asked to trickle down a gallon or two.

The only exception would be a return pump failure or severe slowdown or a big clog somewhere.