Diver's Den "quality"

[Steve and his Animals]

Typically, when I shop LA I usually order from DD because that's where the rarer stuff I'm usually looking for is. My past couple orders have been somewhat disappointing.

A few months ago, I grabbed a Wetmorella albofasciata (white-banded possum wrasse) from there, since they're rather hard to come by. For the price, ($160, if I recall correctly), I figured I'd get a specimen that was relatively outgoing and eating. Wasn't really the case; the fish hid constantly and I never saw it eat. She died a few weeks later, despite the many foods I offered her in a tank by herself (so no competition or intimidation/bullying from others). Granted, the fish was in good condition when it came in, and I've kept the other two species of possum wrasse so I know they can be challenging, so I chalked it up to bad luck and moved on.

Today, I received a leopard toby puffer (Canthigaster leoparda) from DD, a fish I have been looking for for literal years, and while it arrived alive, it seems unfortunately skinny for a toby puffer (having dealt with dozens of tobies through work and personal keeping). It's the first day, so if it survives the shipping stress hopefully some deworming and meaty foods can fatten it up over time; I'm just disappointed with the condition of the fish. (Notice the exposed lower-jaw bone/sunken stomach and skinny top-down profile of the individual)

That being said, and maybe I'm misunderstanding their process, but I thought DD had a 2 or 3 week observation period where they make sure the fish has no visible diseases and is eating well. How is it acceptable for them to ship out fish that aren't eating/in poor physical condition like this? Am I not paying a premium for these fish to supposedly receive more specialized care? Sorry for the rant, it's just aggravating to deal with these issues from such a reputable seller.

 

[Chris4reef]

I feel like the quality has gone down. I bought some clowns recently and they are rather sickly looking. Skinny.
A few years ago I bought a nice pair from DD and they were big body. Very healthy.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Not to badmouth anyone, but I've always found that LA and DD aren't completely honest. When you email them with specific questions regarding fish health, they give very cookiecutter responses that are copied and pasted, such as "we promise to ensure quality for our customers" or something like that. They say they have QT protocols, but when I ordered from them, every fish was either DOA or seriously ill with internal parasites. Some things they had in stock wound up not being on the order list (which is frustrating because you aren't allowed to cancel the order either). The only things that were completely healthy were the cleaner shrimp and brittle star. The neon green rhodactis I ordered from them arrived as shriveled up purple mushrooms, and now I only have one left. That was my personal experience, but it was a poor experience that steered me away from LA/DD.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Not to badmouth anyone, but I've always found that LA and DD aren't completely honest. When you email them with specific questions regarding fish health, they give very cookiecutter responses that are copied and pasted, such as "we promise to ensure quality for our customers" or something like that. They say they have QT protocols, but when I ordered from them, every fish was either DOA or seriously ill with internal parasites. Some things they had in stock wound up not being on the order list (which is frustrating because you aren't allowed to cancel the order either). The only things that were completely healthy were the cleaner shrimp and brittle star. The neon green rhodactis I ordered from them arrived as shriveled up purple mushrooms, and now I only have one left. That was my personal experience, but it was a poor experience that steered me away from LA/DD.

I agree, I always assumed they reuse DD pics once in a while. Corals I rarely buy from them but the ones I have received are usually very nice.

 

[Wyvern]

Wow, you got the puffer I almost bought!

Almost every fish I have is from DD.

Fortunately (knock on wood) they have been good specimens.

I have seen for sale that obviously aren't in tip-top shape, and there are quite a few that are "blemished".

They churn out a lot of fish, I expect issues for some, and things like puffers that are sensitive to meds, I question how they treat them.

 

[happyhourhero]

I have had good experience with DD earlier this year over a few transactions. Ordered a court jester from the Rhinelander facility and assumed same standards as DD but fish came with visible illness. It was eating and lived and all but I was still a bit shocked to see defects in the bag. I guess that makes my post “neutral”

 

[kittenbritches]

My last several LiveAquaria orders have been disappointing. Sick fish, beat up corals, dead inverts. I've used the last of my store credit from DOA claims, and don't plan to use them anymore.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Wow, you got the puffer I almost bought!

Almost every fish I have is from DD.

Fortunately (knock on wood) they have been good specimens.

I have seen for sale that obviously aren't in tip-top shape, and there are quite a few that are "blemished".

They churn out a lot of fish, I expect issues for some, and things like puffers that are sensitive to meds, I question how they treat them.

You're probably lucky you didn't. It hasn't really moved since acclimation; I put it in an isolation box since the first thing the cleaner wrasse did was run over and aggressively try to eat its spots, and it's sitting in the corner it originally landed in. Hopefully it's more active tomorrow.

Also, puffers aren't sensitive to meds if you pick the right meds. I run every puffer I've ever come into contact with, both fresh and saltwater, through a combo of coppersafe, prazipro, and metrodizole. The metro is really important as most puffers come loaded with intestinal parasites. The store I work at runs copper sulfate in the water and we keep all kinds of puffers in it with no issues.

 

[Wyvern]

You're probably lucky you didn't. It hasn't really moved since acclimation; I put it in an isolation box since the first thing the cleaner wrasse did was run over and aggressively try to eat its spots, and it's sitting in the corner it originally landed in. Hopefully it's more active tomorrow.

Hopefully it will pull through.
I heard those guys can be shy and don't like much light, and why I changed my mind on it.

 

[kryz]

If I recall correctly, I believe LiveAquaria was sold last year to another company. So it is possible they don't follow the same protocols anymore. That being said, my experiences with DD have been mostly good.

 

[kittenbritches]

If I recall correctly, I believe LiveAquaria was sold last year to another company. So it is possible they don't follow the same protocols anymore. That being said, my experiences with DD have been mostly good.

They were acquired by PetCo, but are allegedly independently owned again.

LiveAquaria Under New Ownership Following Sale by PetCo | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

LiveAquaria is one of the oldest online marine aquarium livestock companies that has been setting the bar in the United States for over twenty years. Five years ago LiveAquaria was acquired by PetCo…

reefbuilders.com

Their new owners : https://reefbuilders.com/2020/08/25...g-group-owned-by-tropical-fish-international/

 

[bnord]

is it correct that their founder and leader has left the company? New management leading to a new culture?
Although my last fish order was very healthy, it was not shipped when they stated, and their CS response was bordering on rude. Not the usual Wisconsin nice.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

is it correct that their founder and leader has left the company? New management leading to a new culture?
Although my last fish order was very healthy, it was not shipped when they stated, and their CS response was bordering on rude. Not the usual Wisconsin nice.

I think I remember the original director of DD left the company awhile back, not sure.

 

[Buckster]

I had an order from live aquaria with a mandarin. Didn't even have a chance to acclimate it as it was DOA. I thought the bag did not have enough water and it was squished under the other package.

 

[LiveAquaria]

@Steve and his Animals Good morning. So sorry to read of your disappointment with the condition of your Toby Puffer. You are absolutely correct in that we do not receive these guys in very often. The images you have provided, we do agree the fish appears on the thin side, We received a few of them in our Rhinelander DD facility and they all responded well to our Quarantine/Holding protocols. Prior to shipping to you, the fish was eating Hikari Brine and Mysis. Our Ops team takes great pride in shipping healthy specimens and we stand behind our guarantee 100%. Please PM me your order details so we are able to document your order accordingly and work with you personally. Thank you for reaching out and have a nice morning!

 

[Tamberav]

I bought a leopard puffer from DD maybe 2 years back and it also arrived skinny and unwell.

Bought a scooter from DD, same thing.

Bought a starkii damsel off DD and it arrived with some sort of severe disease or bacterial infection. The fins were partially melted off and the side had white patches. I assume This all developed quickly in shipping.

I have bought other DD specimens that were totally ok/healthy.

Like anywhere else, I consider DD still a hit or miss. Just with pictures. DD/LA used to be extremely affordable so it wasn’t a big deal but I have not done business with them much anymore since the prices do not reflect the quality anymore.

 

[Steve and his Animals]

Update, puffer is dead after coming home from work today. Pathetic.

 

[adsf430]

I used to use Divers Den all the time for my fish years back when I had a fish only and everything I got came in tip top shape but I’ve seen tons of reviews that it has changed drastically since they were sold to Petco. Only thing I’ve ordered since I got back into the hobby again from them were two cleaner shrimp and both died pretty quickly but they at least refunded me. Then got two ORA maroon storm clowns and they’re just great but theyre from ORA obviously so not the same situation.

 

[Morphinel]

Yeah divers den and liveaquaria is a joke now. Used to be so great. They are overpriced and what you receive is usually half dead. It’s quite sad how far they have fallen.

 

[angelsandtangs]

I was thinking about getting the African imperator off DD now second guessing it .. been out of the sw hobby about 6 years before than DD was the place to go for fish