DIY (Auto) FROZEN FOOD FEEDER

[WallyB]

Nice work! A friend of mine in Rochester (Ellery Wong) did a similar thing with a refrigerator, mixing plate, and solenoid system. You might want to connect! Congrats on getting it to work nicely.

That's cool.
And the Sub-Mini Fridge is awesome. I didn't know they existed.
I googled and found what called a "Under Counter Lab Fridge"

Bit pricey. OUCH!!
https://www.fishersci.ca/shop/products/tsg-series-undercounter-refrigerators-13/p-8481017

There must be cheaper versions like Ellery got.

 

[Greg Gdowski]

Ellery is a pretty remarkable reefer.

That's cool.
And the Sub-Mini Fridge is awesome. I didn't know they existed.
I googled and found what called a "Under Counter Lab Fridge"

Bit pricey. OUCH!!
https://www.fishersci.ca/shop/products/tsg-series-undercounter-refrigerators-13/p-8481017

There must be cheaper versions like Ellery got.

I can ask Ellery. He has a lot of articles that he has written on his FB page. He has also written a number of articles for other groups. He is a pretty remarkable reefer. I have been reefing for 12 yrs or so. When I need help -- Ellery is the first person I ping. There are 3 or 4 people of this breed in Rochester. We are very lucky to have a strong reefing community in a smaller upstate city.

 

[Greg Gdowski]

SAD News. One of my Copperband Butterflies just Died.

Remember, this Feeder Was built for all 3 of my Copperband Butterfly Fish.
They were my inspiration, and motivation.

The other fish get plenty of Pellet and Flake via the Ehiem Feeder, and Nori Sheets.

This happens when a Copperband cleans up the Aptasia from a Tank, and then they need other food.

He was the smallest and thinnest one. Happy guy. Very energetic.
And the only one that didn't eat small Fresh Open Clams that I put in my Tank every week.

I buy these just for my Copperbands. Excellent product.

Frozen Clam On A Half Shell - Hikari Sales USA

100% natural clam with half the shell removed to expose the meat hidden inside. Excellent source of natural amino acids and the shell can be used by longer toothed fish to gnaw and grind down the length, a natural instinct.

www.hikariusa.com

My Large Copperband can eat a whole piece in one sitting. (Slowly over a few hours)

Maybe I should blend up some Clam Meat and make DIY Frozen cubes to add to the Concentrate.

That's my next improvement. BETTER Frozen Food Concentrate.

Very sorry about your Copperband. That is a real bummer.

 

[inDcreations]

Hey @inDcreations , Still plugging your Product on someone else's thread. LOL.

Just kidding, I'm fine if it doesn't become a habit, since we are not competition.
(I'm not making money....making My Feeder for others). YET!! But you never know if I retire some day and get bored.

At least this time you threw in a Compliment which makes things better.
Last time you didn't and that didn't feel right to me, since it's something I wouldn't do to you or anyone.
Imagine if you had a thread trying to market your product, and I came along saying here is a my design and your can make one yourself. (I made an DIY Alk Monitor, and would never think about posting on a Trident or Reef Kinetics thread).

Like I said. Your Frozen Feeder is certainly for Folks who are not DIY capable, or don't have time.
Hope your business does well.

I didn't know you had a Dock SYstem. Must be something new. I looked at your product when you posted and saw no mention.
Hope it isn't a clone of my distribution system idea. LOL

I'm Curious. Let's see your Dock System and how it works.
I'm giving you another chance to plug your product on my thread. No Charge. LOL

I’m sorry if I’ve posted in your threads before wally, I wasn’t trying to steal your thunder. The dock system was part of our kickstarter we ran last year...so it’s not new.

Dont worry though, you only partially inadvertently copied us (I’m kidding.)

When Neptune or other companies are mentioned in threads they usually do step in to clear up any misconceptions or falsehoods and I think it’s important for consumers to hear it directly. I wouldn’t have posted here if we hadn’t already been mentioned.

I wasn’t trying to plug our product so please accept my sincere apology.

 

[WallyB]

I’m sorry if I’ve posted in your threads before wally, I wasn’t trying to steal your thunder. The dock system was part of our kickstarter we ran last year...so it’s not new.

Dont worry though, you only partially inadvertently copied us (I’m kidding.)

When Neptune or other companies are mentioned in threads they usually do step in to clear up any misconceptions or falsehoods and I think it’s important for consumers to hear it directly. I wouldn’t have posted here if we hadn’t already been mentioned.

I wasn’t trying to plug our product so please accept my sincere apology.

Hey @inDcreations, everything is fine.
I was just teasing you (joking around), and hope it got your product more attention it deserves. Not everyone can DIY.
Things are cleared up here, and on the PM we had.
Feel free to continue your pariticpation.
NO thunder stolen, you actually got this thread attention, and my main goal is feeding my fish properly (and sharing ideas)
My thread got you some attention....
Wishing you success on your product as I mention at least twice.

 

[WallyB]

Ellery is a pretty remarkable reefer.


I can ask Ellery. He has a lot of articles that he has written on his FB page. He has also written a number of articles for other groups. He is a pretty remarkable reefer. I have been reefing for 12 yrs or so. When I need help -- Ellery is the first person I ping. There are 3 or 4 people of this breed in Rochester. We are very lucky to have a strong reefing community in a smaller upstate city.

Yes, please do.
I can't seem to find a fridge like Ellery shows in his video. (assuming is low cost)
Get the Brand and maybe model #.
The Koolatron works, but A super mini shelf type fridge might be a better option for me.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

SAD News. One of my Copperband Butterflies just Died.

Remember, this Feeder Was built for all 3 of my Copperband Butterfly Fish.
They were my inspiration, and motivation.

The other fish get plenty of Pellet and Flake via the Ehiem Feeder, and Nori Sheets.

This happens when a Copperband cleans up the Aptasia from a Tank, and then they need other food.

He was the smallest and thinnest one. Happy guy. Very energetic.
And the only one that didn't eat small Fresh Open Clams that I put in my Tank every week.

I buy these just for my Copperbands. Excellent product.

Frozen Clam On A Half Shell - Hikari Sales USA

100% natural clam with half the shell removed to expose the meat hidden inside. Excellent source of natural amino acids and the shell can be used by longer toothed fish to gnaw and grind down the length, a natural instinct.

www.hikariusa.com

My Large Copperband can eat a whole piece in one sitting. (Slowly over a few hours)

Maybe I should blend up some Clam Meat and make DIY Frozen cubes to add to the Concentrate.

That's my next improvement. BETTER Frozen Food Concentrate.

sorry to hear about your loss, it never stops being a frustration when it happens.

 

[WallyB]

Small Design Change/Improvment ( Nothing Wrong, just Convenience )

After running the Frozen feeder for a Few Weeks, I realized I don't really need the Rinse Water Inside the Cooler.

First of all, it's just rinse water, and does NOT need to be Cooled. (Most important is the Food Concentrate)
2nd it's a effort to fill each time, and lastly, why even have a Water container. I have a ATO water Supply near by.

Taking the Rinse Water Container out of Cooler means less Space needed inside, also the extra space can be used for a ICE Pack to get the Cooler start when I refill the Food.

For now, I have to water container outside, but I'm going to run a line to my ATO Water Reservoir, and then I'll never need to worry about Rinse Water Refills.

I may leave things using External Water Bottle, since I can fill things up, so when FOOD is EMPTY, so is Rinse Water.
That way I don't have to open cooler to peek inside (ie check Food Quantity Left over), which keep the temp down.

If anyone is building a Frozen Feeder, with this change, you can make a more smaller Compact Unit.

Maybe use a Cheaper/Smaller Cooler like this

 

[fishkeepinginasia]

This was such a neat idea.

 

[Lasse]

HERE IS FOOD FOR THOUGHT...... LOL

How about the Other Way around. Keeping Food in RO water. Is it ok that they eat Low Salt Food? Probably.

Can I use Sea Water Level 1.026 Salt Water for the Food Storage? (Fish eat pieces of fish in the ocean floating around)

What is best?

Go back to RO WATER? Sea Water ? if not High Salt Water.

I don't want to harm all my fish......

For now I'm going back to RO water. Add the Mini RO Water ICE cubes.

If you use RO water - you get the same problem - but the other way around - you will draw salts from your food and ad water instead. IMO - its best to use water with the same salinity as in your tanks. Your fish is used of that salinity in their food - and you will have no dilution problems.

It is a good solution you have - I was thinking of similar solutions for my self. However I mainly use to autodose during night so I have constructed a solution without chilling. This. I use my tank water for cleaning and have not have any bacterial backslash. My flask is empty during day - will be filled up just before I add my frozen food. Before every dosing - the water and food is mixed very good - no dilution problems - it will be the same concentration all the tim. I do not think you need a distributing flask - you can catch up directly from the concentrated flask. I have run this every night for 2 months now without any problems.

My thought about bacteria - I use this food mainly for my corals and filter feeders and they just love bacteria too - no problem if you got some. I manually clean my bottle once a week - and there is not very much of bad smell in it. I just check the bottle after 2 weeks of use - no smell at all. It is cleaned with tank water every morning, however - I will change my routine with a little backflush after each feeding - rinsing the tubes too.

However - if I want to feed for a couple of days with the same batch (as you do) - I need a chilling capacity. In that case - there will be no cleaning (or tank water) before the end of the feeding period.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[WallyB]

If you use RO water - you get the same problem - but the other way around - you will draw salts from your food and ad water instead. IMO - its best to use water with the same salinity as in your tanks. Your fish is used of that salinity in their food - and you will have no dilution problems.

It is a good solution you have - I was thinking of similar solutions for my self. However I mainly use to autodose during night so I have constructed a solution without chilling. This. I use my tank water for cleaning and have not have any bacterial backslash. My flask is empty during day - will be filled up just before I add my frozen food. Before every dosing - the water and food is mixed very good - no dilution problems - it will be the same concentration all the tim. I do not think you need a distributing flask - you can catch up directly from the concentrated flask. I have run this every night for 2 months now without any problems.

My thought about bacteria - I use this food mainly for my corals and filter feeders and they just love bacteria too - no problem if you got some. I manually clean my bottle once a week - and there is not very much of bad smell in it. I just check the bottle after 2 weeks of use - no smell at all. It is cleaned with tank water every morning, however - I will change my routine with a little backflush after each feeding - rinsing the tubes too.

However - if I want to feed for a couple of days with the same batch (as you do) - I need a chilling capacity. In that case - there will be no cleaning (or tank water) before the end of the feeding period.

Sincerely Lasse

@Lasse ,

Thanks for your feedback, and insight.

I will go with your recommendation. Use Water (Same Salinity as Tank)

I agree that I could skip the Distribution Container.
That was my original Simple Design.

It worked.
The Distribution Improvement came along to do tube Cleaning. It's when I added the water container too.

This is what I'm starting to Notice after about 2 months of running. 3 Feeds a day, 3 Tanks.
This is happening after about 168 Feeds (per line).

Notice the Black Spotting. Maybe Mold. It doesn't flow with the Food. Stuck to Inner Walls.

This IS NOT happening inside the Cooler where the Lines are COLD.

It's not big deal since I can simply replace the dosing tubes every 6 months. (Maintenance)
Cost will be like $1.00

I think it's harmless (like you say above)

 

[Lasse]

Notice the Black Spotting. Maybe Mold. It doesn't flow with the Food. Stuck to Inner Walls.

It should be interesting to see if you get those black spotting if you run with salt water instead. I will check my in a monbth and report back if I get the same thing

Sincerely Lasse

 

[WallyB]

It should be interesting to see if you get those black spotting if you run with salt water instead. I will check my in a monbth and report back if I get the same thing

Sincerely Lasse

Good Idea.
I'm going to replace two lines (short ones),
and Start using Salt Water for the Concentrate.

Time to experiment in other ways....

Final Purge with Water, then Air.
Or fill line with Water and leave them full of Water.
It coud be exposure to oxygen.
I thought air dry might be better.

Another thought, is also use Salt Water for the Clean/Purge Water too!!

All Great Idea's @Lasse. Thanks for your input.

We can compare test results too (over time). To see if my Tubing Material makes a difference.
My lines are cheap Air Tubing (probably not food grade. Just Vinyl).

(I barely see any black spots in the Dosing Pump Tubing. The pumps have Food Grade tubing and actually the best there is (NOT SILICONE, but PharMED BPT).

The Food Grade tubing is pretty expensive.
BPT is insane $15 US for 3 feet.

23.9US $ |Peristaltic pump tube pharmed BPT tube pipe from Saint Gobain hose tubing|pipe tube|pipe hosepipe pump - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[WallyB]

Yes... splitting the output has its limitations. Every tank would have to get fed the same number of times per day and the same amounts. Your system is better as it allows you to customize based on the needs of individual tanks.

Did I understand the link you provided correctly... do you actually feed into the return chamber and have you pump too the feeding?

I can see how substituting fluid for air in my design would be an improvement. But my design doesn't include a method to stir the contents, which would be necessary as the food would settle to the bottom.

Sorry @Dom, I've been so busy at work.

OOOPs. Old post. Double reply.

 

[WallyB]

It should be interesting to see if you get those black spotting if you run with salt water instead. I will check my in a monbth and report back if I get the same thing

Sincerely Lasse

Hey @Lasse,

You gave me an another Idea to Try, with a Twist!!

When I was cleaning the system, it got me thinking about the spots on the Feed LInes to Tank.
I'm using RO water, and it's too pure.
I read that when you have RO reservoirs, or even in your RO tank, the RO water doesn't have Clorine to keep the system disinfected , so you're suppose to run a bit of bleach Flush every so often.

In this case, I wouldn't run bleach to feed my fish.
But why not fight FIRE-with-FIRE. Or Bacteria-with-Good-Bacteria.

Instead of using Sterile RO water for the Rinse. I'm going to Use water from the Tank for the Rinse Water.

It will have Same Salinity at Tank , and ALSO contains Live Bacteria to keep the lines clean by Good BACTERIA.
And bastically the amount I remove, it put back, so no offset to Tank Salinity.

 

[Lasse]

I do not know if I was clear with that - but I use my tank water both for filling purposes and rinsing purposes.

Because that I have no chilling capacity - I had to manual load and automatically rinse my bottle before every feeding batch. I have look for individually thermoelectric wine chillers - they exist but it is difficult to to insert a magnetic stirrer into the structure. However - they could work if I use air as stirrer instead. An airline into the bottom and let an air pump inject air in the bottom and stir up the water/food solution before feeding

When my wife have stopped laughing (after heard about the idea - it will take a year or two) I probably will give it a try

I run a GHL profilux 4 computer and my dosing pumps are integrated in the system (and they can run forward and backwards). I also run DC pumps in all positions. This means that I can incorporate a lower return pump flow when I feed with the dosing pumps.

I check the smell in my bottle - a week after last manual cleaning - no smell of rotten food and no visible signs of bacteria growth in the tubes after 2 months - it will be - I´m sure - but at least not yet

Sincerely Lasse

 

[WallyB]

I do not know if I was clear with that - but I use my tank water both for filling purposes and rinsing purposes.

Because that I have no chilling capacity - I had to manual load and automatically rinse my bottle before every feeding batch. I have look for individually thermoelectric wine chillers - they exist but it is difficult to to insert a magnetic stirrer into the structure. However - they could work if I use air as stirrer instead. An airline into the bottom and let an air pump inject air in the bottom and stir up the water/food solution before feeding

When my wife have stopped laughing (after heard about the idea - it will take a year or two) I probably will give it a try

I run a GHL profilux 4 computer and my dosing pumps are integrated in the system (and they can run forward and backwards). I also run DC pumps in all positions. This means that I can incorporate a lower return pump flow when I feed with the dosing pumps.

I check the smell in my bottle - a week after last manual cleaning - no smell of rotten food and no visible signs of bacteria growth in the tubes after 2 months - it will be - I´m sure - but at least not yet

Sincerely Lasse

That's Cool. I didn't know about the wine Chillers.
I see in the photo is goes down to 37 Degrees F. That's pretty good.

 

[Greatreefer]

Hey, WallyB
Got some questions for about the design of the auto feeder:
1)
When you install the stir plate into the cooler, what size bit did you use to run the wire through the back of the fridge and once in place how did you make it so the cool air didn't seep out?

2)
So in your design you made it so it feed 4 tanks, and according to your diagram, it shows 3 heads for the tanks and 2 are used to mix up the food solution?

3)
Why did you go with a custom doser over a out of box doser?

4)
How did you figure out how long to run the doser for clearing the food lines?

 

[WallyB]

Hey, WallyB

Got some questions for about the design of the auto feeder:
1)
When you install the stir plate into the cooler, what size bit did you use to run the wire through the back of the fridge and once in place how did you make it so the cool air didn't seep out?

Well the bit you use will depend on the wire or tube width. You want the tube or wire to fit thru it, so I can't say what size since your wires and tubes may be different. I learned it's just better to pick a bit a little large, so things push thru easily. I practiced on a scrap piece of wood before drilling the Hole the COOLER. (If you are doing this in a real fridge, you GOT TO BE SUPER CAREFUL, you don't drill where there are cooling lines in the Fridge Wall. These days the cooling lines don't use Freon GAS like in the old days. It a different Gas, and actually EXPLOSIVE!!!!!
Of course if you are doing your hole in a coolatron a DC plate type of cooler like I used, then no worries about drilling thru any gas lines. Coolatrons don't use gas, they use a Semiconductor to make cool or make heat.

So let's say you drill a hole a bit to big. I just filled it with Silicone to seal the hole around the wire or tube. Silicone peals away easility and isn't permanent, so you can always change your tubes when they get dirty. When I say silicone the clear or white kind you used to seal around bathtub, or sinks, that you get from Home Depot.


2)
So in your design you made it so it feed 4 tanks, and according to your diagram, it shows 3 heads for the tanks and 2 are used to mix up the food solution?

The Diagram I show is just an example, so maybe I only showed 3 heads, but I then made my feeder 4..

Yes in my design there are 4 tanks that I feed, so 4 lines are driven by dosing heads. They feed from the mixing cup.
That mean there are actually 8 segments of tubes. One line into Dosing Head, one line out of dosing head.

I also have a tube that fills the mixing cup with a 5 doser Head, with food. Two lines in this case. One to the food concentrate and one tube into the mixing cup.

And a 6th dosing Head to add water. IN this case two more lines. One into the Water and one into the Mixing Cup.


3)
Why did you go with a custom doser over a out of box doser?

I had my doser as a spare since I made a better one to replace it.
I could have used a off the shelf doser, but why spend more money in my case.
Any off the shelf doser will work, just think about how many tanks you want to feed, and if you want to do the mixing and water diluting, for cleaning tubes.

The other thing when buying a doser is think how you can program it. How many time slots does it have, and if you can vary the amount you feed each time, and when?.
Some dosers off the shelf are a bit less flexible and you just get so many doses per day. Split to be the same amount, and time are split across 24 hours, or whatever.
YOu want to ensure you are not stuck with a doser that will feed your fish at night when they are asleep.
Or feed your fish every hour around the clock.

If you get a doser where you can't custom program the time slots, and it would feed during night time when fish are asleep. You could put that doser on a TIMER, so you turn it off when you don't want feeding. Just make sure when it powers up, that the doser will continue to work and not go into some kind of Power Failure mode that stops all dosing.

4)
How did you figure out how long to run the doser for clearing the food lines?

That I thought would be complicated to figure out. But after playing around i simply learned more is better than less.
I would just empty the tubes so only air in tubes. Then start dosing water, and guess the amount to dose, so that water reached the tank. When water enters a clear tube you can see it moving and pushing out the air. Took a few guesses, but eventually I had a dose that would reach the tank every time.
If you go too long, who cares. It just cleans the lines more, but does use more water.

 

[Greatreefer]

WallyB,
With the Koolatron P75, is the cooling unit on the side and the rest of the cooler is just plastic insolation?
I'm just worried about drilling a side and then puncturing a cooling line.