Do acid and bleach curing methods work better than natural cures? | BRStv Investigates

[Addicted2ACRO's]

It's funny that you say it's not a curing process and yet people describe it as such...not a cleaning process, but it does make sense.
I realize that the rock has to be washed thoroughly with water. Once that is completed I shouldn't see any adverse effects from the Acid and Bleach. Will there be any biological effects on my system?

 

[Bruce Burnett]

It's funny that you say it's not a curing process and yet people describe it as such...not a cleaning process, but it does make sense.
I realize that the rock has to be washed thoroughly with water. Once that is completed I shouldn't see any adverse effects from the Acid and Bleach. Will there be any biological effects on my system?

are you replacing all your live rock or a small portion? If i was adding 20 lbs of un-cycled rock too 200 lbs of rock in a mature tank then no problem but if you were replacing all or most of the rock it will cause a cycle. You will get ammonia spike and may kill your livestock. Best way is cycle the rock in saltwater until you test zero ammonia and nitrite.

 

[Addicted2ACRO's]

Ok...I plan on replacing most of it. So your suggesting once I clean the rock, then cure it in Saltwater before introducing it into my system until there are no traces of ammonia

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Ok...I plan on replacing most of it. So your suggesting once I clean the rock, then cure it in Saltwater before introducing it into my system until there are no traces of ammonia

And nitrites have dropped, you are looking at about six weeks give or take a couple weeks. If you have no pest in your tank I would use water from it to start cycle.

 

[Joe Batt]

Any idea if you can use the Lanthanum Chloride during the cycling process, or if it needs to be done as a separate step prior to the cycle?

 

[Stigigemla]

There are three major aspects or steps in curing rock.
First. Take away the dead tissues that will pollute your water.
Second. Diminish the amount of phosphate bound in the surfaces of the stone.
Third. Populate the stone with bacteria and the small critters (copepods, worms and others) that are rinsing the stone when its in use.
Without that microfauna the stone will clog in a year or two and be useless.

Lanthanum chloride can be used in the second stage but i think a usual GFO will be better because the Lanthanum chloride does not remove anything.
It just binds it as Lanthanum Phosphate. Thats insoluble but its still in the tank and i wouldnt be surprised if Cyanobacteria or something else would be able to release it.

 

[Joe Batt]

There are three major aspects or steps in curing rock.
First. Take away the dead tissues that will pollute your water.
Second. Diminish the amount of phosphate bound in the surfaces of the stone.
Third. Populate the stone with bacteria and the small critters (copepods, worms and others) that are rinsing the stone when its in use.
Without that microfauna the stone will clog in a year or two and be useless.

Lanthanum chloride can be used in the second stage but i think a usual GFO will be better because the Lanthanum chloride does not remove anything.
It just binds it as Lanthanum Phosphate. Thats insoluble but its still in the tank and i wouldnt be surprised if Cyanobacteria or something else would be able to release it.

I acid etched the rocks to remove the most contaminated surface layer of rock containing the majority (I hope) of Po4. I then bleached the rocks to ensure that any organics were fully removed.

If you have high levels of Po4 the GFO will exhaust quickly. The lanthanum binds to the Po4 and it creates flocks that can be rinsed off the rock at the end. You can also drop the lanthanum into a filter sock if you wish so as to contain the flocks.
The lanthanum is VERY effective, only requiring a very small dosage, and thus the rocks leach the Po4 via osmosis.

 

[beaslbob]

again great experiment and video

 

[Stigigemla]

The major part of the phosphate is in the rock and is only slowly solved in the water. The phosphate in the water will immidiatly react with the lanthanum but a good part of that will stick on anything solid near.

There is two problems with using Lanthanum chloride.
1. You have to use it several times because all phosphate is not available the first time.
2. At least a part of the lanthanum phosphate will be in the rock after the rinsing.

A good thing is that its cheap.

The difference with using GFO is that it is slower so the PO4 value in the water will not not be really low before the stone is cleaned.

 

[Joe Batt]

The major part of the phosphate is in the rock and is only slowly solved in the water. The phosphate in the water will immidiatly react with the lanthanum but a good part of that will stick on anything solid near.

There is two problems with using Lanthanum chloride.
1. You have to use it several times because all phosphate is not available the first time.
2. At least a part of the lanthanum phosphate will be in the rock after the rinsing.

A good thing is that its cheap.

The difference with using GFO is that it is slower so the PO4 value in the water will not be really low before the stone is cleaned.

That is the point, that it drives the phosphates in the water very low, thus causing the rock to release its phosphate rapidly to maintain equilibrium via osmosis. The GFO will have the same effect but it will be slower and also doesn't have the same capacity as the lanthanum. You may well end up using GFO repeatedly also.

The lanthanum that is added is very small, because it is so powerful, the lanthanum binding strongly with the Po4. Any residual is tiny and due to the unavailability of Po4 due to its effectiveness at removing it from the water column

I wouldn't advocate using it in a running tank because of the problems with the flocks. The flocks could enter fish gills and could kill them. However if your cycling the rocks separately I think it is a good method to remove high phosphates, if you have them after the acid.

 

[flagg37]

That is the point, that it drives the phosphates in the water very low, thus causing the rock to release its phosphate rapidly to maintain equilibrium via osmosis. The GFO will have the same effect but it will be slower and also doesn't have the same capacity as the lanthanum. You may well end up using GFO repeatedly also.

The lanthanum that is added is very small, because it is so powerful, the lanthanum binding strongly with the Po4. Any residual is tiny and due to the unavailability of Po4 due to its effectiveness at removing it from the water column

I wouldn't advocate using it in a running tank because of the problems with the flocks. The flocks could enter fish gills and could kill them. However if your cycling the rocks separately I think it is a good method to remove high phosphates, if you have them after the acid.

I would agree that using lc as part of the curing process before putting the rocks in your tank should work quite well and not have the risk associated with dosing it directly into the tank. You just need to rinse the rock really well before they go in the dt.

 

[sloanhaus]

Hey guys!


Today on BRStv Investigates, we finally get to see the results from the 8-week test on curing methods for Pukani rock! I’ll tell you, personally, based on these results I’m definitely changing the way I cure rock in the future!


Can’t wait to hear your thoughts, so get to watching and let us know what you think!

-Find all of our reefing videos HERE!

I would of like to see the effectiveness of the bleach on day one through 7 to see if you really need to go a whole week.

 

[Davy Jones]

I plan on using the bleach method to clean my rocks, then a mixture of passivly running GFO and waterchanges in the tub im cycling the rock in to remove p04 and anything else that gets released. Nice thing about no fish and coral, i can run gfo highly aggressively without concern for the rapid reduction harming anything

 

[Trickman2]

Natural rock cooking, I had a 90 gallon tank I took down and the rock has been cooking in plain saltwater for about 5 months. The new 280 gallon tank is stood up. The old rock had a nasty problem with Vertimid snails. I am ready to get this tank going so can I bleach them for a few hours, rinse and declor and toss them in? Or would a quick acid bath work better?

 

[Joe Batt]

If they have been in fresh salt water for 5 months naturally ‘cooking’ you don’t need to bleach or acid bath them, they are cured. You will kill everything and start them back at zero, and they will need cycling.

 

[yap]

I don't understand. If the goal is to get all of the organics off/out of these mostly man-made rocks, why not just use man-made rocks before anyone puts them in water to grow things? Like use the reefsaver or pukani right after it's made?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't understand. If the goal is to get all of the organics off/out of these mostly man-made rocks, why not just use man-made rocks before anyone puts them in water to grow things? Like use the reefsaver or pukani right after it's made?

Pukani rock is not man made:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-pukani-dry-live-rock-sold-by-the-pound.html

"NOTE: This rock does come out of the ocean and may have some dead material on it such as sponges or other critters. We strongly suggest soaking or curing the rock before use in an active aquarium."

 

[rbraunberger]

Hello all!

I moved my tank, and want to re-cure my rock prior to starting up tank again.

I was planning on doing a bleach cure, about 4 weeks, then rinse and do water cure. One question was do you use saltwater on the normal water cure or just RODI water?

Thank you!!