do i have to quarantine fish?

ReefRxSWFL

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When you say you’re sorry for being insulting that is supposed to mean you know you were wrong. When you do it again you can’t say you meant it. Sorta like you can’t accuse someone of beating their chest, and then beat your own chest.

Agree to disagree. I extended an olive branch that got shoved back in my face. Did you say anything about that?
 
AS

theMeat

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Not disagreeing with you, but there is a difference between clean and sterile. A healthy immune system is ready to deal with introduction of pathogens. However, you don’t necessarily want to introduce disease voluntarily. Like you want others around you to cover their mouth when they cough or sneeze to reduce risk. Were saying kind of the same thing. I take care of sick people for a living, and the practice is not to different. Stay in good shape, eat well, don't smoke and minimize risk of disease. In the end, a healthy immune system is there to back you up.
When my daughter was a wee whipper snapper and got sick I brought her to her doctor. The doctor diagnosed her and then handed me a prescription for antibiotics. I asked the doctor what he thought if I didn’t want to give her antibiotics, and instead let her immune response do the work on it’s own. His response was you are my favorite patient and went on and on about how wise a choice that was physically, and possibly even mentally, in terms of development. Have not seen anyone in this thread suggest intentionally introducing disease, and keeping bad stuff to minimal/sustainable levels would seem to be common sense
 

ReefRxSWFL

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When you say you’re sorry for being insulting that is supposed to mean you know you were wrong. When you do it again you can’t say you meant it. Sorta like you can’t accuse someone of beating their chest, and then beat your own chest.

I was trying to extend and olive branch and get past the animosity. But it doesn't work if it doesn't happen on both sides.
 

ReefRxSWFL

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When my daughter was a wee wiper snapper and got sick I brought her to her doctor. The doctor diagnosed her and then handed me a prescription for antibiotics. I asked the doctor what he thought if I didn’t want to give her antibiotics, and instead let her immune response do the work on it’s own. His response was you are my favorite patient and went on and on about how wise a choice that was physically, and possibly even mentally, in terms of development. Have not seen anyone in this thread suggest intentionally introducing disease, and keeping bad stuff to minimal/sustainable levels would seem to be common sense

Turn it down. By intentionally i meant by actions causing a result. Like the action of nit covering your mouth when you cough. Not intentionally like what the Joker does in the Batman story line.
 
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theMeat

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Turn it down. By intentionally i meant by actions causing a result. Like the action of nit covering your mouth when you cough. Not intentionally like what the Joker does in the Batman story line.
Ok Batman. Hope you know I would not suggest ppl act recklessly in regard to their livestock. In a new tank, or hi stress tank would not suggest not qt. On a mature tank that truly is ‘clean, or sterile, or whatever you want to call it, I would argue it’s not mature in many ways. If you find success using your methods, and others find success on an opposite path, I’m not sure what the problem is. Can only share that i’v been practicing and advocating on both sides of this debate, and have found much greater success letting nature do it’s thing
 

ReefRxSWFL

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You didn't and I didn't say your tank, which I have not seen is unimpressive. I said, a ten year old quarantined fish are not impressive. Which goes along with the tone of your reply.

But when you start a post like this:

Doesn't start off very well.


Everything about your post was disrespectful and would be to anyone. And for my "Vast experience", I started in this hobby in the early 50s and started my still running, not quarantined reef tank the week salt water fish were imported into the US in 1971, so yes, I have vast experience.

Peace bro. Youve been doing this a long time and so have i. Like i said, im sorry for my tone. We disagree, and thats ok.
 

ReefRxSWFL

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Ok Batman. Hope you know I would not suggest ppl act recklessly in regard to their livestock. In a new tank, or hi stress tank would not suggest not qt. On a mature tank that truly is ‘clean, or sterile, or whatever you want to call it, I would argue it’s not mature in many ways. If you find success using your methods, and others find success on an opposite path, I’m not sure what the problem is. Can only share that i’v been practicing and advocating on both sides of this debate, and have found much greater success letting nature do it’s thing

Cool Bro. Not sure what i did to you. Looking back i recall agreeing with a lot of what you said, so not sure where the name calling came from.
 

theMeat

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Cool Bro. Not sure what i did to you. Looking back i recall agreeing with a lot of what you said, so not sure where the name calling came from.
Name calling? You mean Batman? Wouldn’t consider that name calling. Certainly not as bad as what you have done.
You haven’t done anything to me. Your tone hurts the site. Debating different ideas and methods is part of what makes this site great. Once you made it personal, and insulting, you are part of what ales the internet.
 

ReefRxSWFL

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Name calling? You mean Batman? Wouldn’t consider that name calling. Certainly not as bad as what you have done.
You haven’t done anything to me. Your tone hurts the site. Debating different ideas and methods is part of what makes this site great. Once you made it personal, and insulting, you are part of what ales the internet.

Ok bro. Sorry to you as well.
 
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littlefishy

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What is interesting to me is that I've used Paul B's method successfully over a year with my current tank, and unknowingly when I was a teen and again in my 20s and 30s (48 now) with no deaths. All nano tanks 32g and under, all live rock (tapwater as a teen) etc.
I cannot seem to run my fw tanks this "natural" way. Fish WILL die of disease for me, and I feed blackworms,etc. Maybe the formula hasn't been found for planted fw yet? I quarantine and treat preemptively with aquarium o-op's med trio for 10 days now, and have only occasional losses with finicky fish like German Blue Rams, etc. Anyone else experience this difference?
 

theMeat

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What is interesting to me is that I've used Paul B's method successfully over a year with my current tank, and unknowingly when I was a teen and again in my 20s and 30s (48 now) with no deaths. All nano tanks 32g and under, all live rock (tapwater as a teen) etc.
I cannot seem to run my fw tanks this "natural" way. Fish WILL die of disease for me, and I feed blackworms,etc. Maybe the formula hasn't been found for planted fw yet? I quarantine and treat preemptively with aquarium o-op's med trio for 10 days now, and have only occasional losses with finicky fish like German Blue Rams, etc. Anyone else experience this difference?
Have heard this same thing. What me thinks it is, is with fw aquariums and wholesalers with tanks so old that strains of these pathogens have mutated/evolved in a way that is unnatural. Leaving no natural defense for the fish
 

Treefer32

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First off, I do not QT. I have had great success in feeding my fish highly nutritious foods and keeping a clean tank. Routine water changes and ensuring the habitat is the best it can be for them allowing some algae to grow on the glass and rocks feeding several of my fish just from that.

As to sourcing. I used to do Live Aquaria but had some bad batches of fish where they were packaged extremely poorly and arrived frozen, and / or died 3 months later and never looked healthy.

That said, Live Aquaria Divers Den is amazing! I would definitely recommend the Divers Den. They are QT'd fish outsourced to other companies. I got a large order from Divers den that was from Biota. Which was amazing. Never seen fish packaged so well!

So, if you're going to use LA I would only recommend Divers Den.

Secondly, I would recommend others that QT Their fish and treat them for disease. I have nothing but amazing things to say about TSM Aquatics. I just got around $800 worth of fish and not a single issue. Everything was alive, delivered on time, and perfectly health, went straight into my display and all are doing well to 3 months later! No signs of parasites of any types.

I didn't really acclimate them to my water even. I just floated them, pour them into a bucket, mixed it with my water then dripped my water into their water for about 15 -20 minutes, then netted and placed in my tank. Never mix their water with yours. Always net or capture witha container and place in the display.

I do lights out placement and leave off overnight then let the lights on come on naturally the next morning. This allows the newcomers time to explore safely in the dark, and the established fish to wake up the next morning forgetting if the new fish are new or old? I added 13 fish at once this way. I have three very established tangs that dominate my tank.. And none of the tangs batted a fin at any of the newcomers. They treated them like they'd always been there. Was awesome!

TSM Aquatics doesn't always have their stock list up to date online. I had to email my wish list to their sales email and got a response of when the order would be ready. Usually about 60 days from the date of request due to QT procedures.

I plan on sticking with Divers Den at LA and TSM Aquatics for any future fish orders.
 

Paul B

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I cannot seem to run my fw tanks this "natural" way.
I have not kept fresh water fish for probably 55 years so I can't help you there. I remember I used to keep blackworms in my FW tanks and they stay alive forever so the fish can always eat them. But thats all I remember.
 

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