Do I need a protein skimmer for a 20 Gallon High tank?

jt8791

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
397
Reaction score
154
Location
Sabattus
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
How big are the damsels currently? Might have to get clowns that are a bit bigger than they are and get them established first. Might be a bit better in the 20 gallon but live aquaria does suggest a 30 gallon tank for them. Might be more about footprint as well, assuming they are going by standard tank size.

Hopefully someone with experience mixing clowns and damsels will chime in. It gets very complicated trying to mix two pairs of semi-aggressive fish in the same tank. Ocellaris clowns are peaceful until the female hits maturity, then it all changes. I would hate to say go ahead and do it and you end up with major aggression or territorial issues.

Bioload wise i think it would be a bit tight but probably okay, but that really depends if they can tolerate each other to maturity. I imagine the damsels would claim the tank if you add them first but that’s just going by what I have read about their behavior.

I have yet to do a damsel tank but if I did it would probably be only damsels. Have had the itch to try a species only tank of neon damselfish but they are rarely available and need a good sized tank to have a group.
 

Mywifeisgunnakillme

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
1,889
Location
Gig Harbor
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I agree with @reefz.
I love skimmers. Started with a nano skimmer that's weak for my Waterbox 20 + a refugium. Replaced with HoB 1.5 that has been running almost 18 months. I only have 4 small fish in my tank; feed them twice a week with a cube of myssis and tiny amount of pellets in between.
See the photos (I just cleaned the skimmer cup 2 days ago). The HoB 1.5 pulls so much gunk that's hard to believe.

My first skimmer Aquamaxx Nano (used less than 6 months; it could be sufficient for 15 gallon or smaller tanks)
skimmer running 02.JPG



The Aquamaxx HoB 1.5 (a bit noisy due to the gurgling from the air in-take; but excellent performance wise)
IMG_0450.JPG
IMG_0454.JPG
That setup would support of heavy fishload so long as you keep up with it's maintenance!
 

Dewman

New Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 30, 2021
Messages
21
Reaction score
36
Location
Tucson
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hello, I plan on starting up this tank tomorrow and letting in naturally cycle for a month. I'm just going to fill halfway with treated spring water and letting that cycle. I have leftover life rock, and purchased 20 lbs of live sand.

My old 10 gallon is about 6 weeks old with two turbo snails, 2 damsels, and an emerald crab with some chaeto as I think my inverts didn't have enough to eat.

My plan is to set it up, then daily put a cup of sand from the old tank, to the new one for a week to mix it up with my old sand. On the day, my new tank is cycled, I plan on adding my livestock, transferring my old rock in my ten gallon and then siphoning out the 10 gallon to complete the fill for my 20 gallon tank.

I wanted to ask would this be too much shock for the fish if I put them in the newly cycled tank, then add the remaining 10 gallon water from my old tank? I'm in no rush to transfer my old tank and I want to do it naturally with no additives.

I just wanted to know if I need a protein skimmer for a 20 gallon tank. I already purchased an Aqueon QuitePro50 HOB and I plan on putting in a wavemaker.

I hope this makes sense and Thanks for any advice.

20210927_135734_resized.jpg
I would you a skimmer as others have mentioned they serve multiple purposes including helping c02 exchange which will help your ph.
 

Mywifeisgunnakillme

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
1,889
Location
Gig Harbor
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Thanks Jt, I have two juvenile, yellow tailed damsels. I would love to add two tank bred clowns as like I stated, one damsel bullied my one clown, and I had to return to the LFS.

I will stop at 4 fish and just have my 2 turbo snails and emerald crab to do clean up. I just need some advice...if I do purchase my clowns, what is the best way to introduce all 4 to my new tank? I've heard good and bad stories about clowns and damsels.

I'm just thinking my "wild caught" clown was just him vs. two damsels and that's why he was bullied.

I'm thinking if I get a pair of clowns it's 2 damsels vs 2 clowns. My LFS is so busy all the time, the owner is not there, most of the time and he just hires just regular kids who really just need a job. He trains them on tropical but he does all SW maintenance himself. He doesn't allow his workers to touch any SW fish.

I just want to do everything right with this tank instead of asking so many questions to you guys.

My stand is arriving tomorrow and tomorrow is design and set up all day.I'm just wondering the best way to introduce 2 established, small damsels and 2 new clowns to a new tank. Should I wait a full month, then buy my clowns and introduce all 4 to the new tank? I'm just not sure how to do this without them going to war 2 Damsels vs. 2 Clownfish. I will make sure salinity and all test results mirror both tanks before I transfer anything.
A maroon clown would be fine with the damsels (if it didn't kill them). They tend to stay in their anemone (and the damsels could have the rest of the tank) but can grow larger for clowns. Probably fine for the 20 gallon tank. You'll want a bigger tank by the time it gets bigger anyway ;)
 

Haacheew

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
339
Reaction score
343
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That setup would support of heavy fishload so long as you keep up with it's maintenance!
I only have 4 small fish and loads of zoaes, 8 sps frags and couple of LPS.

Clean up the skimmer cup is so easy for HoB 1.5 every week and Skimmer every 6 months. No sweat.
 

Mywifeisgunnakillme

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
1,889
Location
Gig Harbor
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
also--what i would and you'll be much happier long run-- consider drilling the 20 gallon and adding an after market overflow and sump...

sump:

over flow:



Then you have room for a proper skimmer or whatever and extra water to help with nutrient control...
 

GatorScott

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
775
Reaction score
1,038
Location
Central FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I would. Especially on a nano. Tanks don't do very well without one and It helps with nutrients. I can't imagine having a tank without one.
This thread made me come out of my 2 year retirement I can’t lurk and read a totally false statement. This is simply not a true. You should not be putting really more than 3 small fish in a 20g anyways and you can definitely have a great tank without a skimmer and only a filter.

below is my 32g tank, 6 years old, never had a skimmer, nitrates run 5ppm or below. I feed pellets twice a day, frozen for a treat once a week. No carbon, no gfo, no uv. Just a filter floss and a airstone on the back chamber. WC once a week to every other week.

I’m not going to but I could post a pic of my sons 15g fluval flex freshwater conversion tank running nothing but an air stone and that weird sponge like filter they have on the back. Nothing else, with 2 clowns and a goby, growing corals and purple coralline growing everywhere.

Op, sorry to thread highjack but this hobby can be as simple as you make it or as easy. Just be consistent, sometimes less is more.
 

Attachments

  • 8381BB77-030C-4A5F-8F01-901799921BB1.jpeg
    8381BB77-030C-4A5F-8F01-901799921BB1.jpeg
    237.6 KB · Views: 52

Haacheew

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
339
Reaction score
343
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This thread made me come out of my 2 year retirement I can’t lurk and read a totally false statement. This is simply not a true. You should not be putting really more than 3 small fish in a 20g anyways and you can definitely have a great tank without a skimmer and only a filter.

below is my 32g tank, 6 years old, never had a skimmer, nitrates run 5ppm or below. I feed pellets twice a day, frozen for a treat once a week. No carbon, no gfo, no uv. Just a filter floss and a airstone on the back chamber. WC once a week to every other week.

I’m not going to but I could post a pic of my sons 15g fluval flex freshwater conversion tank running nothing but an air stone and that weird sponge like filter they have on the back. Nothing else, with 2 clowns and a goby, growing corals and purple coralline growing everywhere.

Op, sorry to thread highjack but this hobby can be as simple as you make it or as easy. Just be consistent, sometimes less is more.
For some experienced reefers, or well established tanks, skimmers are not a must. Just like few experienced reefers who never do water change at all. For beginner like me, I do value the benefit of having a skimmer especially for nano tanks since nano tank might not have tolerance of water quality fluctuation compared to big tanks. Just my 2 cents.
 

jt8791

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
397
Reaction score
154
Location
Sabattus
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
You’ve already done a ton of work setting up that 10 gallon so if you don’t need to tear it down you could always swap those damsels for a few small fish and have a 2nd tank. but either way save it, worst case it will at least make a qt/ hospital tank.

Up to you if you want to go all the way to drilling and adding a sump but I would personally swap that 20 high for a bigger tank before spending money to do a sump on that small of a tank. Especially if your gonna spend that much doing it. $280 for a sump depending on her stand it might not even fit and you could do that way cheaper with another fish tank for a sump

I went from a 20 high to a 30 and couldn’t see doing another 20 high, saltwater fish seem to like more side to side swimming room. I do consider doing a 20 long though, easier to light, but I’m not gonna waste money on a sump for a tank that small or a skimmer. Stock normally and do water changes, adding extra water volume with a sump doesn’t mean you should overstock based on that added water volume.

For what a good skimmer costs I’ll throw 2 aquaclear 110 filters as refugiums, grow chaeto and have a better pod population. Don’t have to break the bank on fancy equipment, that money can be better spent on other items. Food, test kits, copepods, phytoplankton, wave pumps, heater , power backup. So many things you should get before you decide to jump into a sump, but if you get a return pump that can be hooked to a battery backup then a sump is a pretty logical move.

And I’m no expert, slightly above beginner is what I would consider myself , only about a year and a half experience with saltwater and another year or two freshwater.
 
OP
OP
DebraLV

DebraLV

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
118
Reaction score
60
Location
Los Angeles
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This thread made me come out of my 2 year retirement I can’t lurk and read a totally false statement. This is simply not a true. You should not be putting really more than 3 small fish in a 20g anyways and you can definitely have a great tank without a skimmer and only a filter.

below is my 32g tank, 6 years old, never had a skimmer, nitrates run 5ppm or below. I feed pellets twice a day, frozen for a treat once a week. No carbon, no gfo, no uv. Just a filter floss and a airstone on the back chamber. WC once a week to every other week.

I’m not going to but I could post a pic of my sons 15g fluval flex freshwater conversion tank running nothing but an air stone and that weird sponge like filter they have on the back. Nothing else, with 2 clowns and a goby, growing corals and purple coralline growing everywhere.

Op, sorry to thread highjack but this hobby can be as simple as you make it or as easy. Just be consistent, sometimes less is more.
I agree! When I post a question, experts chime in and I sure do get overwhelmed with all the gadgets, sump pumps, etc. I only have a 20 gallon starting up tomorrow.

But I have learned so much re: nitrites, nitrates, ammonia false API kits. I only have 2 turbo snails, an emarald crab and two juvie damsels who are Bit**h's in my 10 gallon. I only want a fowler tank. My Emerald crab molted today for the first time in a month. He was plain, dull brown when I bought him a month ago.The color came out. So I'm doing something right as a beginner. With many Thanks to the help on here as a beginner in SW. I do believe less is more.

20210927_180619_resized.jpg
 

Mywifeisgunnakillme

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
1,765
Reaction score
1,889
Location
Gig Harbor
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
This thread made me come out of my 2 year retirement I can’t lurk and read a totally false statement. This is simply not a true. You should not be putting really more than 3 small fish in a 20g anyways and you can definitely have a great tank without a skimmer and only a filter.

below is my 32g tank, 6 years old, never had a skimmer, nitrates run 5ppm or below. I feed pellets twice a day, frozen for a treat once a week. No carbon, no gfo, no uv. Just a filter floss and a airstone on the back chamber. WC once a week to every other week.

I’m not going to but I could post a pic of my sons 15g fluval flex freshwater conversion tank running nothing but an air stone and that weird sponge like filter they have on the back. Nothing else, with 2 clowns and a goby, growing corals and purple coralline growing everywhere.

Op, sorry to thread highjack but this hobby can be as simple as you make it or as easy. Just be consistent, sometimes less is more.

That's a nice setup and pretty simple. Classic example of being simple and with low fish load and easier corals.


To give you idea of range of what is possible in a 20 gallon; on the other end of the spectrum, here are few photos of my previous 20 gallon with a very heavy fish load:

20210705_181317.jpg
20210210_232124.jpg
20210419_195745.jpg


To do this in a 20 gallon, i had an Aqua C Remora skimmer (yes it pulled a lot of gunk each week!) and a refugium that required weekly harvest. Nitrates ran zero on any test kit including on mail in ICP test kits. Phosphates stayed about 0.06 to 0.2 and i fed very heavy a couple times a day. Usually about a 5 gallon water change once a week, sometimes pretty lazy on that though...
 

jt8791

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
397
Reaction score
154
Location
Sabattus
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
although I will say drilling and plumbing a sump is a bit nerve racking of an idea for a beginner. Maintaining the tank is enough work, adding in the higher chance of it flooding the place is a whole other level of stress.

I stand by my original comment, that 10 gallon tank looks good and that’s a healthy looking emerald crab. I wouldn’t tear that down, imagine it wouldn’t cost you much extra to keep both going.
 

GatorScott

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
775
Reaction score
1,038
Location
Central FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That's a nice setup and pretty simple. Classic example of being simple and with low fish load and easier corals.


To give you idea of range of what is possible in a 20 gallon; on the other end of the spectrum, here are few photos of my previous 20 gallon with a very heavy fish load:

20210705_181317.jpg
20210210_232124.jpg
20210419_195745.jpg


To do this in a 20 gallon, i had an Aqua C Remora skimmer (yes it pulled a lot of gunk each week!) and a refugium that required weekly harvest. Nitrates ran zero on any test kit including on mail in ICP test kits. Phosphates stayed about 0.06 to 0.2 and i fed very heavy a couple times a day. Usually about a 5 gallon water change once a week, sometimes pretty lazy on that though...
Ok so I’ll come out of lurking twice to respond to you lol.

that’s really cool to be able to see the other end of the spectrum with harder corals and a packed bio load. It’d take to much typing to say all the ups and downs and wasted money on unneeded equipment I had to go through until I found my place in the hobby. And that’s what’s great about this hobby, there’s not one cookie cutter setup or method of being successful. This hobby can be really easy running a few of your fav fish and some easy corals that catch your eye or it can be on the complete opposite end.
 

Haacheew

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
339
Reaction score
343
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That's a nice setup and pretty simple. Classic example of being simple and with low fish load and easier corals.


To give you idea of range of what is possible in a 20 gallon; on the other end of the spectrum, here are few photos of my previous 20 gallon with a very heavy fish load:

20210705_181317.jpg
20210210_232124.jpg
20210419_195745.jpg


To do this in a 20 gallon, i had an Aqua C Remora skimmer (yes it pulled a lot of gunk each week!) and a refugium that required weekly harvest. Nitrates ran zero on any test kit including on mail in ICP test kits. Phosphates stayed about 0.06 to 0.2 and i fed very heavy a couple times a day. Usually about a 5 gallon water change once a week, sometimes pretty lazy on that though...
Beautiful 20gallon tank. Wish mine like yours.
 

jt8791

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
397
Reaction score
154
Location
Sabattus
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Yeah unless you overstock or seriously overfeed I couldn’t see needing a skimmer. They have a few good features but can’t logically call it a requirement. Just like an ato isn’t a requirement necessarily.
 
OP
OP
DebraLV

DebraLV

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 12, 2021
Messages
118
Reaction score
60
Location
Los Angeles
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That's a nice setup and pretty simple. Classic example of being simple and with low fish load and easier corals.


To give you idea of range of what is possible in a 20 gallon; on the other end of the spectrum, here are few photos of my previous 20 gallon with a very heavy fish load:

20210705_181317.jpg
20210210_232124.jpg
20210419_195745.jpg


To do this in a 20 gallon, i had an Aqua C Remora skimmer (yes it pulled a lot of gunk each week!) and a refugium that required weekly harvest. Nitrates ran zero on any test kit including on mail in ICP test kits. Phosphates stayed about 0.06 to 0.2 and i fed very heavy a couple times a day. Usually about a 5 gallon water change once a week, sometimes pretty lazy on that though...
Beautiful Tank!I truly believe in less is more and if we go with low end, we figure it out. Sometimes you have to go with your own judgement.
Yeah unless you overstock or seriously overfeed I couldn’t see needing a skimmer. They have a few good features but can’t logically call it a requirement. Just like an ato isn’t a requirement necessarily.
Thanks so much JT. It's just gonna be a fowler tank with a clean up crew. No corals, nothing fancy. Reefing is way too expensive.
You do get overwhelmed on here when experts chime in with things I have never heard of just yet, haha. I don't plan on anything bigger or better. I just like to look at a peaceful 20 gallon SW tank with non agressive fish that all get along. It's cool to have a small piece of the ocean in your home.
 

Spare time

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
11,977
Reaction score
9,610
Location
Here
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’m sorry but why shame my opinion? If you think you don’t need a skimmer then fine, but don’t slap a “not true” on what I think. Jeez.


I wasn't shaming your opinion. You didn't say "imo" so I assumed to were stating it as a fact like a lot of people on this site do when it comes to protein skimmers. There is a crowd of people who say reefing is impossible or extremely difficult without one and thats not true
 

Aquatic acrobat in your aquarium: Have you ever kept an eel?

  • I currently keep an eel in my tank.

    Votes: 29 14.9%
  • I have kept an eel in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 32 16.4%
  • I have not kept an eel in my tank, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 35 17.9%
  • I have no plans to keep an eel.

    Votes: 96 49.2%
  • Other.

    Votes: 3 1.5%
Back
Top