Do micro brittle stars eat Berghia nudibranch

[((FORDTECH))]

A few friends got some berghias to try to cleanup their heavily infested tanks, a few observations from the group so far:
It takes a load of them to get faster results (still talking months here ) one 150 tank added 30 and it took 4-5 months to start seeing results. Tanknwas taken down a year later and many berghias were found while taking it down.
Another 150 gallon that added 6 took 6-7 months to start seeing result but they wiped out the aptasia in few weeks when he started getting results. He could see them on glass as aptasia became scarce.
One guy tried breeding them but it didn't work out maybe for reasons mentioned here. Believe they have a floating phase when they hatch so circulation /filtration in the breeding tank could be an issue. Yet some breeders sell eggs so should be straightforward to get them to hatch...
I saw a yellown cories wrass hovering over newly added berghias and not eat them. Not trying to over simplify things here but they are nudies in the end and I haven't seen wrasses, copperbands, bristle worms or stars .... exterminate a monti eating nudis population so not sure why they would for berghias. Maybe they do but its a low probability for them to eat all eggs or babies in a large tank with rocks and many berghias so few would escape and should growt the population same as for other nudis.

I could be being impatient this is true. Thanks for the post you could very well be right.

 

[maroun.c]

No

I could be being impatient this is true. Thanks for the post you could very well be right.

No right or wrongs here, believe every tank and every critter can still have a different path or outcome as its simply too many variables, a shame berghia breeders don't share too much info on this topic.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

No
No right or wrongs here, believe every tank and every critter can still have a different path or outcome as its simply too many variables, a shame berghia breeders don't share too much info on this topic.

Seems to me most nudi breeders do say 2-3 months will start to see difference. They also make it seem easy but has not been for me. At least yet

 

[WallyB]

Seems to me most nudi breeders do say 2-3 months will start to see difference. They also make it seem easy but has not been for me. At least yet

Yeah it seems tough. Hope we both learn and share our eventual success which appears to be tied to "patience".

I've done a few tank setups, Copepods farms, Frag Tanks, QT's, but never did I spend so much time staring as much as I do at my Berghia Farm. Many times a day and night. UV flashlight, Zoom camera, and tomorrow I plan to pull out my digital microscope to look for the baby berghias, that may or may not have hatched..

Just a dream.....Wouldn't it be just wonderful, if you could buy a packet of Berghia eggs like brine shrimp. Pour into salt water, add air stone, and hatch a thousand berghia's in couple of days. Then pour the suckers into your aiptasia infested tank.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Yeah it seems tough. Hope we both learn and share our eventual success which appears to be tied to "patience".

I've done a few tank setups, Copepods farms, Frag Tanks, QT's, but never did I spend so much time staring as much as I do at my Berghia Farm. Many times a day and night. UV flashlight, Zoom camera, and tomorrow I plan to pull out my digital microscope to look for the baby berghias, that may or may not have hatched..

Just a dream.....Wouldn't it be just wonderful, if you could buy a packet of Berghia eggs like brine shrimp. Pour into salt water, add air stone, and hatch a thousand berghia's in couple of days. Then pour the suckers into your aiptasia infested tank.

So what’s happening for me because of my substrate I’m using they seem to be laying smaller egg spirals on the carbon and I can carefully scoop them right off for tank transfer in a Hanna glass test vial safety put in 120 to incubate in this vial and hopefully get this infestation that im needing. Unless it’s happening and I was to impatient. I’m thinking in my situation I will never figure that out lol

 

[((FORDTECH))]

One question for you. I have tons of aitpasia, but those darn guy get their base foot into rock holes. Tough to get them cut out. HOW DO YOU GET AIPTASIA removed to move to farm, and not have to carve your rocks into peices?

So I’ll share with you a technic that I learned from someone else on here that works great. I took his method then started to do it my way and this is how I recommend to do it. I have small very sharp scissors and on feed day I turn off pumps and slowly not to scare aptasia reach in there and cut only the biggest or longest reaching because they are easiest ones and take that top half part and put in nudi tank. The bottom half cut part will grow itself back within 1-2 weeks assuming your water quality is good for them. And you are feeding them properly with proper lights. If you do it like this you sustain you aptasia while you feed with some that grow back the others reproduce by pedal lacerations and Babies. Again this is just my opinion and what I have experienced after I read what someone else was doing little differently can’t remember who.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Yeah it seems tough. Hope we both learn and share our eventual success which appears to be tied to "patience".

I've done a few tank setups, Copepods farms, Frag Tanks, QT's, but never did I spend so much time staring as much as I do at my Berghia Farm. Many times a day and night. UV flashlight, Zoom camera, and tomorrow I plan to pull out my digital microscope to look for the baby berghias, that may or may not have hatched..

Just a dream.....Wouldn't it be just wonderful, if you could buy a packet of Berghia eggs like brine shrimp. Pour into salt water, add air stone, and hatch a thousand berghia's in couple of days. Then pour the suckers into your aiptasia infested tank.

OK this is really starting to tick me off Imagine my disappointment this morning when I wake up to find the vile that had the piece of carbon in it with egg spiral is empty I scratched my head for a second going how the hell did the carbon chunk disappear out of the vile so then I find it about 2-3 inches outside of the vial. The vial is too small for a crab to get into only thing I can think of is a Bristol worm going in there eating the eggs pulling out the carbon like I said very disappointing specially when Nudie breeders do not mention the fact that Bristol worms eat the eggs and most likely the Nudis also. I laid vial next to frag disc because it has aptasia on it thinking when they hatch they will have foot witching 1-2 inches to eat. Well I also assume bristle worms live unders all the tiles. S m f h

 

[((FORDTECH))]

So disappointing those eggs been already about week old ready to hatch soon. So now here is more time I will spend trying to get this to work. Last night found another spiral of eggs in breeder on carbon and will transfer to vial and this time stand vial up against glass. Many Nudis will hatch and now climb up and out I stared of forward and out?!? Who knows. But with that being said now I’m on a mission to get every single bristle worm out every day I can. This is crazy.

 

[WallyB]

Wry disappointing those eggs been already about week old ready to hatch soon. So now here is more time I will spend trying to get this to work. Last night found another spiral of eggs in breeder on carbon and will transfer to vial and this time stand vial up against glass. Many Nudis will hatch and now climb up and out I stared of forward and out?!? Who knows. But with that being said now I’m on a mission to get every single bristle worm out every day I can. This is crazy.

Frustrating indeed. I was also freaking when I saw a couple of Bristle worms in my Berghia Farm. The worms do look nasty in comparision to the Berghia's so you wonder. However I read berghia's do have some defense mechanisms. In my setup Bristle Worms had nothing to eat (even in water column) so I did had the theory that like any starving creature they will attack and eat anthing to live. Of course I did find the amphipod and that explained the missing eggs.

Now my setups both Aptasia QT and Berghia farm are as bio-sterile as possible. No substrate, rocks. Nothing but glass and acrylic. Still those adults find places to hide (incredible), but at night they do come out. Eggs sprials appear to be safe at this point since I really inspect everything between transfers. With 5 Adults I would expect more eggs than just 2 sprials in last week or so. Still better than nothing.

 

[WallyB]

Quick update. Seems my 2nd Attempt with a Sterile/Predator-Free Farm is taking off.

I'm noticing eggs in various places. PHoto of a couple of spirals just I noticed today in one area. There are probably more since they like to lay eggs under things.

Not quite out of the woods, since I need to see a hatching happen.


Thought I'd pass on to give you inspiration/motivation do do your Predator clean up.

 

[Kjames]

A few friends got some berghias to try to cleanup their heavily infested tanks, a few observations from the group so far:
It takes a load of them to get faster results (still talking months here ) one 150 tank added 30 and it took 4-5 months to start seeing results. Tanknwas taken down a year later and many berghias were found while taking it down.
Another 150 gallon that added 6 took 6-7 months to start seeing result but they wiped out the aptasia in few weeks when he started getting results. He could see them on glass as aptasia became scarce.

I've had similar experiences. It would be amazing if one could devise a trap to capture nudis at the peak of their population during a successful tank cleaning. All of this breeding work is fascinating.

Here are my two nudibranch stories:

In my 60 gallon AIO, there were 100+ visible aiptasia on the rocks, sand, and in the back compartment.

July 2021 - added (5) 1/2" nudibranchs
July 2021 - added (10) 1/2" nudibranchs
Sept 2021- added (9) 1/4" nudibranchs

Aiptasia continued to multiply until mid-November. That was the turning point. Once the aiptasia started to disappear, it was obvious that their numbers were declining daily. Pretty amazing to process witness. The last visible aiptasia was present just before Christmas. In that entire time, I saw exactly one large nudibranch way out on the front glass. This is a low flow tank and the aiptasia which remained the longest were in the highest flow area. I actually turned off that powerhead for a couple of weeks to make it easier for the nudis to get the stragglers. I am not ready to say "eradicated", but for the moment that appears to be the case.

In my 150 SPS tank, it's a different story. I added more 1/2" nudibranchs but on the same schedule. 95% of the aiptasia disappeared and did so sooner. A select few survived. I also have three wrasses in that tank, which may have affected nudibranch survival. Interestingly, at least one of them made it from my display, through a roller mat into the refugium and two more all the way to my connected frag tank....through the return pump(!) Again, I spotted them near the peak of aiptasia elimination.

Lessons learned:
Patience
Follow breeder acclimation and placement procedures
Add as many as you can afford
Reduce the flow
Know your predators
Patience

 

[Reef and Dive]

I am considering trying a copperband but that will not get in my overflows and sump so back to my original question

If the Chelmon keeps it under control on the display there’s no problem to have some on the overflow and sump. Happens in my tank. I don’t ever see any on the display.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Quick update. Seems my 2nd Attempt with a Sterile/Predator-Free Farm is taking off.

I'm noticing eggs in various places. PHoto of a couple of spirals just I noticed today in one area. There are probably more since they like to lay eggs under things.

Not quite out of the woods, since I need to see a hatching happen.


Thought I'd pass on to give you inspiration/motivation do do your Predator clean up.

Wondering how is things going ?

 

[WallyB]

Wondering how is things going ?

Well as far as Eggs Hatching, or baby berghia I see nothing. I do see more eggs being laid. Probably more I don't see under stuff.

However now I'm having a hard time keeping up re-stocking Aiptasia to the Berghia Farm.
The Adult Berghia's seem to be getting bigger, Fatter and they are ganging up on even Large Aiptasia I'm adding.
Eatten in a day or two.

Is it possible I can't see the babies and they are contributing to the increased aiptasia consumption?


I do have dozens and dozens of Aiptasia in my Frag tank, but the buggers really dig in deep into nooks and crannies.
I can't seem to clip the aiptasia tops like someone suggested, so I carve them out of rocks as best as I can. It risky work since I almost transfered another Bristle worm by mistake. Removed him just time time from the farm.

My plan was to clean up the Frag tank with Baby Berghia, but that's not happening (YET).
I will wait a bit longer, but maybe I should throw in two Berghia Adults out of 5 into my Infested Frag Tank. Let them do the work they were bought to do. If these larger berghia are as efficient as I see, then in a few months that Frag Tank will be clean. They may even breed in the Frag Tank better. No idea.

Still it would be nice to get some babies in the Farm. To learn the succcess factor and see results. Spread them around to all 3 of my Tanks.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Well as far as Eggs Hatching, or baby berghia I see nothing. I do see more eggs being laid. Probably more I don't see under stuff.

However now I'm having a hard time keeping up re-stocking Aiptasia to the Berghia Farm.
The Adult Berghia's seem to be getting bigger, Fatter and they are ganging up on even Large Aiptasia I'm adding.
Eatten in a day or two.

Is it possible I can't see the babies and they are contributing to the increased aiptasia consumption?


I do have dozens and dozens of Aiptasia in my Frag tank, but the buggers really dig in deep into nooks and crannies.
I can't seem to clip the aiptasia tops like someone suggested, so I carve them out of rocks as best as I can. It risky work since I almost transfered another Bristle worm by mistake. Removed him just time time from the farm.

My plan was to clean up the Frag tank with Baby Berghia, but that's not happening (YET).
I will wait a bit longer, but maybe I should throw in two Berghia Adults out of 5 into my Infested Frag Tank. Let them do the work they were bought to do. If these larger berghia are as efficient as I see, then in a few months that Frag Tank will be clean. They may even breed in the Frag Tank better. No idea.

Still it would be nice to get some babies in the Farm. To learn the succcess factor and see results. Spread them around to all 3 of my Tanks.

I’m still dealing with the same things trying to catch Bristol worms and pods. Pretty sure I will have to break down and sterilize my system like you did. And all of a sudden the aptasia in my aptasia farm don’t seem to be doing so well so gunna have to figure something out there. As far as the aptasia being eaten so fast yes the Nudis are so small barely can see the on the glass unless flash light shine just right and looking from a certain angle only.

 

[WallyB]

I’m still dealing with the same things trying to catch Bristol worms and pods. Pretty sure I will have to break down and sterilize my system like you did. And all of a sudden the aptasia in my aptasia farm don’t seem to be doing so well so gunna have to figure something out there. As far as the aptasia being eaten so fast yes the Nudis are so small barely can see the on the glass unless flash light shine just right and looking from a certain angle only.

I'm not sure if you have been doing this for your Aip Farm.

I followed this thread a while back.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/berghia-nudibranch-eggs-experience.708091/page-3#post-7426748

He started breeding Brine Shrimp and fed them to Aiptasia. Check out the thread. He was slicing up the aip and splitting them, then feeding them the live brine shrimp and kaboom!

In my case, I don't want more Aips.

 

[((FORDTECH))]

Little update here. Finally some Success. Followed Wally’s lead and caught all the nudis I could and then cleaned the whole tank out Sterilizing it of all Bristol worms and pods of any sort. Put a few small clean rocks back in to provide hiding places did not add any substrate so bare bottom and added the Nudis back. At this point my aptasia was low and nudis was slow moving I’m thinking from little food around but laid few patches of eggs. Not sure if they was fertile tho cause only seen 1 nudi at a time when laying so guessing this is why haven’t seen baby nudis yet. For 2-3 days I started to stress about almost out of aptasia and then a miracle someone on local reef fourm posts live rock for sale claims they eat so little for it because it’s completely infested with aptasia and they figure no one wants it. I’m so excited now I call the guy and buy all of it for 200$. When I see this rock I can not Believe my eyes it is as he said completely covered I’m guessing thousands. So I set up a separate tank for them not putting them with the other aptasia and have been cutting the aptasia and adding a lot of them to the Nudy tank after doing this for a few days it was like I turned on the light switch all of a sudden all the Nudis are out all active all together all laying huge patches of eggs together I’m pretty sure this is the beginning of a good thing here’s some pictures of it all including all the live rock I scored with thousands of aptasia for 2$ a pound

 

[WallyB]

Little update here. Finally some Success. Followed Wally’s lead and caught all the nudis I could and then cleaned the whole tank out Sterilizing it of all Bristol worms and pods of any sort. Put a few small clean rocks back in to provide hiding places did not add any substrate so bare bottom and added the Nudis back. At this point my aptasia was low and nudis was slow moving I’m thinking from little food around but laid few patches of eggs. Not sure if they was fertile tho cause only seen 1 nudi at a time when laying so guessing this is why haven’t seen baby nudis yet. For 2-3 days I started to stress about almost out of aptasia and then a miracle someone on local reef fourm posts live rock for sale claims they eat so little for it because it’s completely infested with aptasia and they figure no one wants it. I’m so excited now I call the guy and buy all of it for 200$. When I see this rock I can not Believe my eyes it is as he said completely covered I’m guessing thousands. So I set up a separate tank for them not putting them with the other aptasia and have been cutting the aptasia and adding a lot of them to the Nudy tank after doing this for a few days it was like I turned on the light switch all of a sudden all the Nudis are out all active all together all laying huge patches of eggs together I’m pretty sure this is the beginning of a good thing here’s some pictures of it all including all the live rock I scored with thousands of aptasia for 2$ a pound

That's great news!!!

Now the next hurdle. Will the eggs hatch? And will babies survive to become adults? You certainly have enough food now.

None of mine eggs hatched (visibly). I waited and waited. More eggs spirals were being laid during the wait. Still no hatching.

I eventually gave up on my Bergia farm and move all 5 adults into my Aptasia infested tank. It's been a few weeks, and I checked at night. The beghia's are out and active. I am seeing a reduction in aipatsia and it's speeding up.

However, in the Frag tank all the live rock is biodiverse. I see pods, bristle worms and amphipods galore. Now even though there are active Adult Berghia's in the Frag tank I don't see any egg spirals. Either they are laying them in hard-to-see areas, or the eggs are being eaten.

My plan is to wait till the tank is Aiptasia free and then remove the Adult Berghia's to move to my DT.

Hope your Berghia Farm does well. Keep the updates coming. Let us know the timing on hatching and when you get baby berghias (you can visibly see active).

I'm rooting for your success!!