Do New Born Babies Sleep in a King Size Bed

[omykiss001]

Ive been waiting for someone with your like mind opinion, So your telling me that when your fish die its as significant as the loss of a dog. Well buddy if your going around sheding tears for lost fish and going to the extent of burying them like your four pawed family member when they pass than your perspective of value for every living organism is right on! However there is a reason people who share my perspective on drawing a line in the sand when it comes to the significance for certain living organisms.

I know my place in the food chain and some of the fish you admire in aquariums ive fished and eating for dinner so excuse me for feeling a lack of compassion for what ever pet fish i put in my tank. So inless your a vegan save me the i do it for the fish speech.

You think Mike Vick would have went to jail for fighting fish! Lol

I'm sorry perhaps I wasn't clear in my intention. To me it's more about wasting the resources. Draw your line where you wish I consider all life to be significant and should not be wasted so I can have something pretty in my house. Just so you know I'm a biologist by trade and personally I don't hold a dog above a fish, or a rat. If you fish and catch a food fish and eat it great, however if you said I catch fish toss em on the bank and let em rot I'd have issue with that. I eat meat too, but I would not consider it ethical or right to abuse and torture those animals just because they are destined to be on my plate. The main reason I don't eat wild fish or do so very rarely is pretty much all those fisheries are managed so poorly and most are in rapid decline or have pretty much collapsed, Georges Bank comes to mind or the salmon fisheries where I live. I myself prefer to catch and release to preserve the resource. I let a 75lb dorado along with several nice sailfish go when fishing offshore in Costa Rica got a quick pic then back to the sea, that is 10 fish still swimming and could be caught by the next guy rather than removing 10 fish from fishery. When I trout fish here in the west the only places to catch large mature Wild trout is in the designated catch and release streams as they are next to nonexistent in the kill fisheries, you can get little 5" hatchery guys but nothing wild or big.

Do I feel bad when a creature in my charge dies, yes I do. I must be a freak as I feel the same way when a coral or other invert dies too, especially if due to my negligence. Everyone has different levels of attachment to their charges. If you don't cry when your fish die that's fine I don't either, but I do take their bodies and place them around scrubs and trees at my house to let the fish return its nutrients back in the web of life. Luckily I'm still mostly dependent on buying plant food for the trees.

So let me ask you as you sort of brought it up. Do you think Mike Vick felt he was doing anything wrong maybe he thinks of dogs the same way you think of fish. Is he wrong in your mind for fighting dogs if his view is the same? I just consider it wasteful of a living thing and cruel. If you go to Korea, Vietnam or Indonesia you note a lack of the pawed family members you spoke of. That's because they are the other red meat and are consumed by the locals. I don't have an issue with this either they are not wasting the animals and because they raise and eat dogs there's a lot of local wildlife that does not wind up in the pot.

It's about conservation of the resource and I think we all have a role to play. If you buy fish as ornaments then dump back to the LFS. Should the LFS have any responsibility for the animal, maybe it just gets euthanized when they can't move it so they can open the tank for something they can move, what about the wholesaler who maybe over packs bags because shipping costs are higher than livestock value, or the collector who uses cyanide to collect the fish, it's efficient and the fish will only live a short life so the consumer will be back for more sooner good for business. This is my point if we just consider these animals as consumables and expendable then soon this resource will be unavailable to the hobby.

 

[David Jones]

Well after i throw 3 tangs ,2 clowns, dwarf lion ,emperor angel and a clown trigger in my 60 gallon i will be sure to send you a picture lol

People say dont get upset when you receive negative opinions , well the same goes to you, i hope my comment about what i plan to do with my tank didnt upset you.

Or if me not batting an eye because one of my fish or all of my fish die, if they die im gonna flush them like the expensive goldfish they are lol

I can continue on my arrogant rant if you like

 

[David Jones]

Well after i throw 3 tangs ,2 clowns, dwarf lion ,emperor angel and a clown trigger in my 60 gallon i will be sure to send you a picture lol

People say dont get upset when you receive negative opinions , well the same goes to you, i hope my comment about what i plan to do with my tank didnt upset you. Lol

You really sound like the actions of others with there pet fish is going to risk your capability of maintaining active in this hobby, because you think the fish police are going to say you cant keep these types of fish anymore, give me a break

 

[tj w]

Wow... U opened this conversation knowing you will have negative and positive input coming your way. Seems you still have a lot to learn in this hobby and if u keep posting negative comments you will keep receiving them.

 

[ludnix]

All of the tangs you buy will be from the wild. All of the goldfish you buy will be tank bred. Regardless of your emotional attachment to fish do you not think there is concern in taking these limited resources from the wild? If you house them appropriately you can keep them for decades, like members on this forum have, see Paul_b for one. If you don't house them appropriately and they die prematurely from stress you'll have to get another one, and another one, and another. You can teach your kids about the wonders of the ocean with fish that will not only survive long term, but could thrive. You could have a pair a clowns and breed them, teach the kids about the entire life cycle of the fish, raise more and provide additional fish for other hobbyist to teach their children with.

 

[hybridazn]

You really sound like the actions of others with there pet fish is going to risk your capability of maintaining active in this hobby, because you think the fish police are going to say you cant keep these types of fish anymore, give me a break

This is what is exactly happening to the hobby, there are groups that are trying to stop the catching of fish for the aquarium hobby. Snorkel Bob is the leader of the group that is trying to stop the fisheries in Hawaii from catching fish for aquarium use.

There has been a bigger push lately for captive breeding and people are trying, but we are years and years away from being even close to what the freshwater guys are doing breeding wise.

 

[David Jones]

Thank you for sharing that, so how do you justify taking these fish from the ocean and putting them in any size tank.. if thats the case no tank you can buy can make Snorkel Bob satisfied, you saying that its better for the fish to put them in a larger tank rather than a smaller tank, i say its best to side with Snorkel Bob and leave the fish where they belong, and if yiu cared that much about the fish you would do what one of the OP suggest an buy a tv a stream video of fish in the wild, because i dont care if you have a 10,000 gallon tank its still not the ocean.. so save me speech about doing whats right for the fish because if you were doing whats right for the fish you wouldnt be buying tropical live caught fish especially with everything you know about how they get these fish and the methods they use, you sound like a huge hypocrite, if your gonna buy fish that were taken from their home in the ocean live with the fact they will never live in their appropruliate size home again

 

[reeffirstaid]

Clearly the OP has little to no experience in managing a marine aquarium, and has little understanding about the precious resources, that are marine fish. Most of the fish available to aquarists, have been wild caught. The amount of stress they suffer through shipping and sale, is enough to kill up to 90% of them. No matter the species, aquarists are taking on a monumental challenge when acquiring a new fish, and having it successfully adjust to captive life. It's so monumental, that statistics show us, the majority fail and many specimens are dead within a few months. It's difficult to acclimate marine fish to captivity, even when conditions are just right. Throwing fish into an environment not properly sized for them, magnifies potential problems 100 times over. Each fish needs to be able to form an adequate territory, and there has to be enough water volume so that nutrients don't pollute the tank. I'm sorry, but 60 gallons isn't much water volume, and doesn't give an aquarist a lot to work with. It's also far less than most species of marine fish need, to adequately form territories and be healthy. The simple truth, is that the species you intend to keep will never survive to adulthood, and it's likely they will die within a few months. If you move forward with the same mentality, a revolving door of dead-livestock will begin. It's folks like you, that give this hobby a less than acceptable social view - and will eventually lead to enhanced, invasive restrictions on species that can be kept.

 

[hybridazn]

We have closed this thread because quite frankly it has turned from a discussion to a bickering contest. It has run its course and is done.