Do we know what type of sponges angel/moorish idols eat?

Miami Reef

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Scientific name please.

Why do I want to know the exact types of a fish will eat sponge? Because I want to encourage them in my tank. I know some sponges require silicates to grow, but others depend on different food sources.

Imagine I dose silicates and grow the wrong sponges.

Basically: will the sponges that moorish idols/angel fish consume be encouraged with silicate dosing?
 

Isopod80

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Scientific name please.

Why do I want to know the exact types of a fish will eat sponge? Because I want to encourage them in my tank. I know some sponges require silicates to grow, but others depend on different food sources.

Imagine I dose silicates and grow the wrong sponges.

Basically: will the sponges that moorish idols/angel fish consume be encouraged with silicate dosing?
@Paul B
 

Isopod80

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Yeah, that would be good as well. I know Paul has experience with Moorish Idols and collected his own sponges for them.
 
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Miami Reef

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Yeah, that would be good as well. I know Paul has experience with Moorish Idols and collected his own sponges for them.
Ok. Now I’m excited for Paul B to answer. Do I need to add an under gravel filter for him to reply to me? Or would a bottle of ich work? :)
 
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Miami Reef

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Also @Paul B PLEASE I beg you. Don’t recommend those stupid blue sponges to me. I don’t want to be 80 years old with tears in my eyes regretting I added them. That scraper can only get me so far at 80. ;Hilarious
 

Isopod80

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Ok. Now I’m excited for Paul B to answer. Do I need to add an under gravel filter for him to reply to me? Or would a bottle of ich work? :)
I'm sure he'll get around to you eventually......once his hands are dry. ;)
 

Tamberav

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The sponge he fed he just collected himself. I don’t think it is at all native to where the morish idol lives but I remember him saying it loved it. Guessing there isn’t one specific type of sponge they will eat.

I would think sponge would get decimated quickly in a DT if there was a fish that likes it but a separate place to cultivate it would potentially work.
 

tehmadreefer

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Feed as normal, plus your corals, it will snack on and throw in the hikari mega marine angel cubes in and voila... seriously it’s not that hard.
 

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The sponge he fed he just collected himself. I don’t think it is at all native to where the morish idol lives but I remember him saying it loved it. Guessing there isn’t one specific type of sponge they will eat.

I would think sponge would get decimated quickly in a DT if there was a fish that likes it but a separate place to cultivate it would potentially work.
In his book he also mentioned having luck freezing the collected sponge and portioning it out. He collected them from docks in New York. The fish loved them.
 

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I'm sure he'll get around to you eventually......once his hands are dry. ;)
Contrary to popular believe, I don't read every post on here. :rolleyes:

In the sea, in Tahiti I saw them eating a lime green sponge and it is the only thing I ever saw them eat there. But in Hawaii. They live on dying algae like here.



They are the only fish that eats that stuff. The sponges I collect here in NY grow at the surface on floating wooden docks and I would freeze it through the winter. That was my Idol's favorite food. They will eat anything but for some reason don't live much more than 4 or 5 years in a home tank which is a dismal failure.

They also eat frozen bananas but I don't know how nutritious that is.
You need to feed them a few times a day. I made a feeder that dropped fish oil soaked pellets into a dish about 4 times a day. The fish would sit by that dish all day and watch it.
 
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They will eat anything but for some reason don't live much more than 4 or 5 years in a home tank which is a dismal failure.
@Paul B

I know this is speculations at this point: but do you think that the fail of moorish idols has little to do with their diet? I keep reading stories about them dying big, not skinny and weak.

Maybe there is a parasite that lives on them? I have NO idea! It’s crazy! Seems like yours died after 5 years with sponges in its diet that you collected from the wild. Humblefish said his died after 5 years too.
 

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I had heard from a Biologist in the South Pacific that Idols only live 4-5 years in the wild and grow very fast, so if they get 4-5 in captivity, then that is good since who knows how old they were when collected. I have no idea if it is true.

Put me in the camp that feeding sponge is not necessary if the fish get their nutrients from other sources. In the olden days, supplementing with Zoe for fatty acids and Selcon for vitamins was needed, but with high quality pellets like NLS and the availability of Mysis, this has not been necessary for me. What used to be more difficult fish like Idols and Rock Beauty seem to do well on these if they are are going to do well - I am not saying that these are easy, just what used to be impossible are now somewhat possible.
 

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WEll if 5 years is normal for them, I am happy. But I doubt it. They are in a class by themselves "Zanclis" or a similar name but they are very similar to butterflies. I am not sure if sponges are needed but inFrenchPolynesia, thats all I saw them eat and I followed them for quite a few hours.

Maybe it depends on where they come from but I do know that they will eat just about anything and I don't think food is it.

In the South pacific I also noticed that they always lived in pairs, but not in Hawaii. After a few years of seemingly good health, they just decline.



 

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@Paul B

I know this is speculations at this point: but do you think that the fail of moorish idols has little to do with their diet? I keep reading stories about them dying big, not skinny and weak.

Maybe there is a parasite that lives on them? I have NO idea! It’s crazy! Seems like yours died after 5 years with sponges in its diet that you collected from the wild. Humblefish said his died after 5 years too.

I mean you could be fat and still have a nutritional deficiency.
 

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I don't know how good this is, but this source says 4 years on Idols. If so, then a few more in captivity might be OK. I cannot find anything that says to expect them to live like a tang or butterfly which I have some still going near 20... and nearly all sources say that the life is unknown but they are very certain on tangs and other types of fish. If we ever have a MACNA in person, I might ask one of the biologists there if they know. I would not be surprised if ones from different areas had different life spans - the only ones that I have had were from RT in Hawaii.

I kinda see it like Peppermint shrimp which have a short lifespan of about 2 years in general, but they can live for 3 in my tanks.

Who knows, right? I would be happy with an Idol for 5 years that won't eat my corals. :(

 
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Miami Reef

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I don't know how good this is, but this source says 4 years on Idols. If so, then a few more in captivity might be OK. I cannot find anything that says to expect them to live like a tang or butterfly which I have some still going near 20... and nearly all sources say that the life is unknown but they are very certain on tangs and other types of fish. If we ever have a MACNA in person, I might ask one of the biologists there if they know. I would not be surprised if ones from different areas had different life spans - the only ones that I have had were from RT in Hawaii.

I kinda see it like Peppermint shrimp which have a short lifespan of about 2 years in general, but they can live for 3 in my tanks.

Who knows, right? I would be happy with an Idol for 5 years that won't eat my corals. :(

I want to believe that moorish idols don’t have a long lifespan. It’s the only thing that makes sense as to why ones that flourish just randomly die. That normally doesn’t happen. Fish that look healthy, active don’t just die overnight without any signs of parasitic infestations nor signs of being malnourished. Humblefish kept one for about 5 years and isn’t even 100% sure if they eat sponges for survival. Paul B said ones in Hawaii eat rotten algae. Doesn’t seem like diet is the cause of death for the most part.

Live Aquaria told me I purchased a juvenile about 3”…but it’s massive. I thought it fully mature, as my adult tangs are about the same size. The most logical explanation as to why they mature so quickly is IMO because they have a short lifespan.

Mosquitos reach maturity at 3 days and die at 8 days.

I am not saying I have these fish figured out, but what would people think if maybe we don’t have much success keeping these fish alive long term was mainly because they don’t live long term?
 

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Most people can't keep them 6 months. Luckily they are a very common fish and many times the only fish on dying reefs as you can see by the pictures I posted.

As for a healthy looking fish dying, Bangai cardinals have the shortest lifespan out of all the fish we keep, about 4 years. They are healthy and spawning, then all of a sudden they go downhill.

I have kept quite a few of then for their lifespan as they are a very hardy fish.

I have also had 3 or 4 moorish Idols and I find them a pretty easy fish. Until they are not of course. :rolleyes:
 

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@Paul B

I know this is speculations at this point: but do you think that the fail of moorish idols has little to do with their diet? I keep reading stories about them dying big, not skinny and weak.

Maybe there is a parasite that lives on them? I have NO idea! It’s crazy! Seems like yours died after 5 years with sponges in its diet that you collected from the wild. Humblefish said his died after 5 years too.
I speculate as well. Because they still die even after a few successful reefers manage to feed them well and the Moorish idol appear to be in well kept conditions.

There has to be like enzyme or protein that are important to their survival and found in their natural diet (sponges). I wish to attempt to keep a idol in the future but I'm doing research in the meantime and learning how to cultivate sponges in captivity first.
 

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