Do you know what a DSB is and should you or does it even matter?

[Bramzor]

I think we are way passed a DSB. People might have good experience with it and if so, don't change a winning team but I think these days people wouldn't use any DSB anymore especially newer reefers since there are way more ways to get the same result and way more efficient.

 

[Key-tie]

I do believe that, at times, we need to develop our tanks for what directly benefits the organisms we keep, and not just for our personal "aesthetic" that we want to see...
If the sand bed is only for nitrate removal, then there are many ways to do that.
But the sand bed directly benefits certain creatures, and not jist the sand dwelling ones also.
It also has many benefits for many different fish also...and a DSB should get credit for more then just as an " added internal tank filter".

 

[Peace River]

Not a DSB... not to my way of thinking, anyway.

A DSB is a 4 to 10 inch deep oolitic sand bed, where anaerobic bacteria can process nitrate deep in the sand bed. You can't stir it, if you do, the anaerobic layers will release all kinds of nasty into the tank.

This is an interesting point! There seems to be a range of implementation of thick levels of sand in a tank from using a reverse under gravel filter to keep the sand in motion, using sand shifting CUC, wrasses, etc. to move the sand occasionally, and having sand that you don't want to move at all (and several similar variations).

As a separate thought, I have often considered setting up a biotope tank mimicking the Gulf of Mexico grass flats along the coast of Florida, but the required DSB (and the potential for the "release of all kinds of nasty" has prevented me from actually pursuing this option.

 

[Proteus Meep]

I have never run a DSB myself but if i ever did, i would only run it in the sump and split it between two separate acrylic containers so one can be lifted out after a year or two and fresh sand put into that tub before it reaches "critical mass" as it were and the second tub then changed another year or so later and kept in rotation indefinately....the lifeforms of the remaining mature tub i would imagine would soon repopulate the fresh one

 

[brandon429]

an interesting dichotomy about sandbeds in reef tanks:

a bare bottom system can never kill your corals and fish quickly. if anything, a slow nutrient starve takes months. a bare bottom can never give you a mini or full recycle, in the presence of $ investment

the deeper you run a sand system, the more instant you can lose your whole reef. So is it sand grains that are dangerous, or the stuff sinked in between em?

that doesnt state DSB's are bad, just that the dichotomy exists and you should consider pros and cons.

ways Ive seen a dsb kill a tank, even when running correctly:

rock slides

power head dislodge

power outages (dsb's are absolute oxygen sinks to compete w your fish in outages, bad idea)

house moves, and not having a plan to deal with detritus upwelling


*if dsb's reduce/mineralize waste into neutrality, its amazing they're such a procedural liability for owners at every interval

The end summary is that with tons of luck, great planning, you might get natural nitrate reduction vs turbo nitrate production. I think that's why they're not as popular in this thread

based on extensive logged work with other peoples deep sand beds, medium and shallow beds, I think only 5% work as designed. the rest are bell curve time bombs after 24 mos that last as long as you let the stratification continue.

*there are new methods being made for dsb design that involve cleaning and guiding vs total storage, that gives new potential to the design imo.

my sandbed is about 6 inches deep. I simply keep it clean, very little in between the grains. disturbance will not harm my tank

 

[WDLV]

I run a DSB, a SSB and a BB all on a common sump.
I feel that it depends on your objective as to what depth, and grade of sand you use, or if you don't want it at all.

 

[120reefkeeper]

I run tanks with and without DSB. They both work.

 

[Nasir]

I use a DSB because that’s what looks natural to me.

 

[Billdogg]

I have used a DSB in the past, and would again if the need arose.

Personally, I don't care for the look in most DT's, but if you are keeping garden eels or something else that requires it then it is what it is.

I utilized one as a part of a 3 tank system - a nearly bare-bottomed (maybe 1" sand) 150DT, a 50g sump with skimmer, and a separate 120g tank with a 6+" DSB with a large tray of LR suspended above to allow for circulation .

I did this due to necessity. The 150 was home to a 4' Undulated Moray who would happily eat 3 or more hand sized filets weekly. Lotsa food = Lotsa waste. It was difficult to put much LR in that tank because he could easily knock over any that were not directly on the eggcrate protected bottom. Before I put the DSB online, Nitrates were so high as to be untestable even after 50% water changes. If I would do 2 or 3 50% chages within a week I could then at least test and get a number, but even then it was alarmingly high (100ppmish).

After doing a whole lot of reading about solutions, a proper DSB seemed a good choice, if it was large enough. That led me to putting a spare 120 in service. Within about 2 months of putting it online, Nitrates went from untestable to virtually undetectable (at least for that tank - say 20-40ppm between water changes)

I then started using that tank for a home for the endless supply of Kenya trees and palys I was growing in another system. With them helping, nitrates went to as close to 0 as they had ever been, even going as long as 6 weeks between water changes.

I think the problems that many have with them is underestimating the size needed to actually be effective and/or putting in a bunch of "CUC" - sand sifting stars for example - decimating the fauna needed for it to function and then becoming a nitrate sink that when disturbed.

jm.02

 

[David S]

I've been running a 4" DSB in my display for a good 7+ years.
I did this to combat nutrient issues.
It may have helped with NO3.
2 years ago I switched from my leaking 30 gallon to the present 38 gallon. I was considering dispensing with the DSB but the people from the LFS who were assisting with the move, saw my corals and suggested that I maintain the DSB, as they were impressed with what they saw.
I was a bit leery. Based on the muck that was visible from the DSB along the glass. I thought there might be Hydrogen Sulfide issues.
This was not the case.
Virtually no odor and the sand looked pristine. It took less than a couple of hours for the new tank to clear up and there were no issues.

 

[Rie]

Is there someone who has a DSB in a separate tank?
I mean by this, a tank with only 3-inch sand that runs with the main tank.
Without lighting or residents and with a small flow that flows through the sand.
Here in Belgium there are several enthusiasts who keep the nitrate content very good under control.

By not using lighting there is also no problem with cyano or algae

 

[Lasse]

See the start of my build tread - I run a type of DSB that I have named RRDSB (ReversedRemoteDeepSandBed) It is basically a reverse flow under gravel filter with 15 cm deep sand bed. The upper part is my refugium. I can adjust the flow trough it. I can use DOC down to the plenum if I want - even bubble CO2 there - if I want. I have not use CO2 yet.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[BeejReef]

5" tupperware container full of miracle mud in sump. I suppose that might barely qualify as a remote dsb

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

What the heck does DSB stand for? DSB is an acronym for deep sand bed!

The question and poll of the day is inspired by @JoshH and we're hoping to really get some good info from you!

How many of us are running a DSB and what are your experiences with it?

How deep is your DSB and how deep do you think it needs to be to be a DSB?

Is your DSB in your tank or is it a remote DSB?

image via @TriggerThis

It's old school technology if I had room in my tank design I would have one but a little more modern touch to it like in the plenum which is in the bottom I would have water move up wards very very slow and monitor it at least get an idea with ORP controller.
I prefer the sulfur denitrator . I can take it out bring down my nitrates and put it away as I please. And it's not in the tank

 

[vetteguy53081]

Since my day’s of having the pet store, ive always had a bef of .5 - 1”. Easy to vacuum, releases detritus easily and still has the appearance of bedding minus the thickness.
Hard to tell when you see the tank

 

[Reefahholic]

I ran a DSB in the past mostly for denitrification. They definitely work for denitrification if set up properly. IMO they need to have mostly sugar fine sand to achieve the most benefits such as anoxic zones and provide the correct environment for the critters that make a DSB thrive. This fine sand limits the ability to run higher flow rates. However, DSB’s add stability and surface area for beneficial bacteria. I finally got away from DSB’s because I feel like we have easier filtration methods today such as Siporax which accomplishes about the same thing. It does indeed keep my nitrates in check. I have to dose it back to the system regularly. I like DSB’s and they work. However, as with anything there’s pros and cons. Anybody that wants to set one up should visit IPSF ( https://www.ipsf.com/) for the critters to make it thrive. If they become depleted, you’ll need to add them back. Limit adding anything to your sandbed that will hunt the very life in it.

 

[jda]

I would never run a tank without at least 3 inches of sand. I figured out a long time ago that I am not as good as nature. Also that I am smart enough to know that most of the message board banter about them (this thread included) is not even close to accurate.

 

[brandon429]

I think it's results that made them unpopular. Dsb advocates had twenty years and a 1st go on nearly every reef made

But they faded, and required additional supports for nitrate like dosers, ats etc (mentioned by another poster in alt dsb thread)

Can web posts really be that powerful, especially when wrong? To drive out half the adherents to a system?
Writings here seem like evals from prior attempts, working with sandbeds over time... half still like the old school way and report success that shows ability for some to make use of the old school way of letting the bed handle all waste.


I'm reading a basic preference for cleaner running and more control over nutrients as today's trend

99% of people started with one, 40-50% remain in the classic sense which is full on waste storage. Most bed owners clean them which isn't bad I guess it's following the current best results:

" MY WHITE SAND METHOD "

thanks again i know what type im getting next lol Im usually on RC and havent been around R2R much but i think im going to start looking around the site more:) Thats right before i forget to ask ive found the petco type of gardener on #bay (dont know if i can use the name on here yet?) anyone...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[BZOFIQ]

I think we are way passed a DSB. People might have good experience with it and if so, don't change a winning team but I think these days people wouldn't use any DSB anymore especially newer reefers since there are way more ways to get the same result and way more efficient.

I'd love to hear what is more efficient and low cost than passing water over a vessel with 4-8" of sand in it.

 

[Key-tie]

I would never run a tank without at least 3 inches of sand. I figured out a long time ago that I am not as good as nature. Also that I am smart enough to know that most of the message board banter about them (this thread included) is not even close to accurate.

We are not as good as nature....
Perfectly said, agree 1000%