Do you know what a DSB is and should you or does it even matter?

[Paul B]

But I am still curious. A low cost, low flow tank with a Jaubert plenum, few fish (but I can go with species I didn't want in display - damsels maybe), softie or other low demand corals, perhaps some display algae I think could be very attractive. I was even thinking I may go completely old school and get actual live rock. One low flow circulation pump (if any), no sump, no or small air stone skimmer, few water changes.

I think my tank is similar to that except I don't have a very few species. My tank does have a plenum under my Reverse UG filter but I have almost 30 fish and the tank is packed with corals and sponges.

I never liked DSBs and remember when they were invented. Bon Goemans is a friend of mine and has been to my house.
I have always thought Schmeck's idea of a DSB was flawed. The Idea is OK but the thing can't be maintained.

As was said, those creatures need to be replaced, but not only that. Those creatures are not stupid, they are not going to burry down to the bottom of that thing because for it to work correctly, there is no oxygen there. Schmeck's theory is that worms dig down and make pathways for water to get there. But if you can find a worm stupid enough to go down there with no oxygen, then that kills the idea that it works with limited oxygen.

Besides that, If I am totally wrong and a DSB is the best thing since Myley Cyrus I see another problem.

I know in my reef I have a complete ecosystem and food chain. I like to see creatures spawn including my pods, worms, etc.

My RUGF has water flow all through it constantly and because of that, it is loaded with life all the way through the gravel and under the plenum.
Tiny things constantly spawn and provide food for my corals and sponges just like the sea. The fish also constantly spawn but of course get eaten eventually but before they get eaten, they get to feed.

To me it is life in a tank that makes it healthy, and the more life, the healthier it is especially if it needs no help from me.

In the almost 50 years my tank has been running the power has gone out many times and we have had many hurricanes over that time. Once I lost power for 5 days.

I used my SCUBA tank to add some bubbles and all was well. Eventually I got a generator but lack of oxygen or circulation seems to have little to no effect on my system which may go on to live longer than me.

 

[Malevolent]

Prime example

New Salt Water. My bad. Always assumed that's what NSW meant[emoji23]

 

[PhreeByrd]

We could debate this forever. And probably will. In the end though, I don't know how one can refute real world experience with theory and speculation. In my experience, those alarmists who claim a DSB is a ticking time bomb are simply wrong, misinformed, or repeating misinformation with no basis in fact.

Several members here, myself included, have stated that they have had DSB's in place for many years without issues. Personally, my two DSB's are 2.5" and 4" of fine sugar sand, running for 25 and 20 years respectively. Those are average depths, however, because the critters in the tanks have moved sand around over the years, and I don't bother fighting them over it. These DSB's most definitely have anoxic zones, and looking through the glass at the sand bed, you can see that the color of the sand varies from white at the surface to almost black near the bottom. There is also evidence of small fauna venturing into every part and depth of the sand bed. The animals that need the sand bed to thrive, such as nassarius snails, have been surviving in those tanks for many (more than 10, at least) years. I don't clean or bother the sand beds at all, at least not intentionally. These are pretty straightforward mixed reef systems, nothing unusual in equipment or stocking. Skimmers, heaters, powerheads, sump/refugiums, and one of the systems gets automatically dosed with 2-part. That's it, though.

IMO, cleaning the sand bed is a waste of time, and may even be detrimental. If I scoop up a cup of the sand bed, it is teeming with all sorts of visible (and logically, invisible) life. Cleaning the sand bed would be removing much of this life, which makes no sense at all to me.

Those running bare-bottom systems can attest to the fact that BB systems don't stay BB for long, or without extensive regular cleaning. BB is just not what nature wants.

 

[Quietman]

I think my tank is similar to that except I don't have a very few species. My tank does have a plenum under my Reverse UG filter but I have almost 30 fish and the tank is packed with corals and sponges.

I never liked DSBs and remember when they were invented. Bon Goemans is a friend of mine and has been to my house.
I have always thought Schmeck's idea of a DSB was flawed. The Idea is OK but the thing can't be maintained.

As was said, those creatures need to be replaced, but not only that. Those creatures are not stupid, they are not going to burry down to the bottom of that thing because for it to work correctly, there is no oxygen there. Schmeck's theory is that worms dig down and make pathways for water to get there. But if you can find a worm stupid enough to go down there with no oxygen, then that kills the idea that it works with limited oxygen.

Besides that, If I am totally wrong and a DSB is the best thing since Myley Cyrus I see another problem.

I know in my reef I have a complete ecosystem and food chain. I like to see creatures spawn including my pods, worms, etc.

My RUGF has water flow all through it constantly and because of that, it is loaded with life all the way through the gravel and under the plenum.
Tiny things constantly spawn and provide food for my corals and sponges just like the sea. The fish also constantly spawn but of course get eaten eventually but before they get eaten, they get to feed.

To me it is life in a tank that makes it healthy, and the more life, the healthier it is especially if it needs no help from me.

In the almost 50 years my tank has been running the power has gone out many times and we have had many hurricanes over that time. Once I lost power for 5 days.

I used my SCUBA tank to add some bubbles and all was well. Eventually I got a generator but lack of oxygen or circulation seems to have little to no effect on my system which may go on to live longer than me.

Thanks, I got more from reading Bob Goeman's site than any place else. There's lots of knowledge everywhere, but he placed in a logical easily referenced order without an agenda and really helped me fine tuned my bogus info detector. Very impressive.

And of course, your tank was an inspiration as well...always impressed by successful simplicity. We need to get out of nature's way more often and let things adjust rather than constantly tweaking.

Agree on the DSBs - my thought when i hear "well, there's no plenum in the ocean" is always, "yeah, you don't have hundreds of parrot fish pooping out a new DSB every month in your tank either". I think DSB's work, but have a short lifespan unless you're replacing sections (which is what is done now - human parrot fish). My gut (and the research) is telling me plenums have a very long life span if you do the minimum maintenance (which doesn't involve large replacements of sand).

Another few months and I should be able to start. Don't expect to learn anything new...just really want to see if I can set it up and stay out of its way. Plus, I have a nephew who's just dying to get into reefing (13 years old) and a low maintenance tank might be just the thing.

 

[Paul B]

I don't think a DSB is a ticking time bomb. Many people feel my reverse undergravel filter is a ticking time bomb or the fact that I never quarantine is a ticking time bomb.

Most people have never even seen a ticking time bomb, but I did.

I feel a DSB will last as long as the Earth itself because I surmise that after a period of time,it will become compacted and inert.

That may in itself may not be a bad thing, but In my opinion, after some time, It will not allow any water to penetrate and it will do nothing for water conditions.
I also think if you drilled a hole in the bottom of a tank with a 20 year old DSB,no water will come out.
(but don't try that as I have been wrong many times )

Just my opinion of course because I have never lived under a DSB

 

[Quietman]

I don't think a DSB is a ticking time bomb. Many people feel my reverse undergravel filter is a ticking time bomb or the fact that I never quarantine is a ticking time bomb.

Most people have never even seen a ticking time bomb, but I did.

I feel a DSB will last as long as the Earth itself because I surmise that after a period of time,it will become compacted and inert.

That may in itself may not be a bad thing, but In my opinion, after some time, It will not allow any water to penetrate and it will do nothing for water conditions.
I also think if you drilled a hole in the bottom of a tank with a 20 year old DSB,no water will come out.
(but don't try that as I have been wrong many times )

Just my opinion of course because I have never lived under a DSB

Don't drill holes in bottom of aquariums...got it. See always willing to learn something new.