Do you think we have gone too far with clownfish breeding?

Have we gone too far in search of new types of Clownfish?


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D-Nak

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THey were accidentally produced via a natural mutation- but have been purposefully propagated for the red eye phenotype. On purpose. Despite being able to read articles about albinism and visual impacts, they did it anyway

Abhorrent, and now boycotted.

The fact they are crossing them with snowflakes to get offspring with the ‘in vogue, hip, woke’ name of ‘white walkers’ just shows they are doing it for mass market appeal to bring in cash.
I really don't think these will be that popular. If you like white clowns, you either get Wyoming Whites or Platinums or equivalent. These don't even look like true albinos.

There isn't even a mass market appeal for longfin clownfish. A LFS told me that they get theirs for free from the breeder when they make a big enough purchase.
 

flsalty

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Put the pitch forks away, you're misunderstanding this. The clownfish isn't bred to be partially blind. Poor eyesight is typical of most albino animals. There are SOOO many varieties of albino freshwater fish, reptiles, amphibians, mammals, and more. It's a natural genetic anomaly.

It's only a matter of time before more albino fish show up in the saltwater hobby. I'm looking forward to an albino orchid dottyback. I would bet it will be bright pink.
Put the strawman away. Nobody said they set out looking for blindness as a trait. And don't get me started on what they've done with reptiles...
 

Katrina71

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I don't mind the new types of clowns as long as it is not detrimental to the health of the fish.
 
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banasophia

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Glad to find this thread and read everyone’s comments. Has anyone reached out to ORA yet regarding the concerns about the intentonal breeding of these fish with known visual impairment? I’m considering doing so... just wondering if anyone else has yet, and if so what the response was.
 

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Glad to find this thread and read everyone’s comments. Has anyone reached out to ORA yet regarding the concerns about the intentonal breeding of these fish with known visual impairment? I’m considering doing so... just wondering if anyone else has yet, and if so what the response was.
I have not but please keep updated if you do
 

Kzang

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So I got this email the other day about ORAs new breed of clown fish "Zombie Clowns". Reading through this these new clowns look pretty cool, not something I would want myself but I could see the allure to them.

ora-zombie-clownfish-2-768x427.jpg


Upon further reading near the bottom of the article theres a little disclaimer stating that contrary to belief these fish aren't blind, but partially blind.

I don't know for sure if this is a byproduct of the particular type of breeding it takes to get this type of clowns or not. But I would think it's somewhat related.


So my question is, do you think we have gone too far trying to come up with new patterns of clowns? Have we gone so far as to accept breeding to the point of relatively disabled fish? What are your thoughts on this?
They aren't blind? Their visual acuity is reduced. It doesn't say by how much and it says it affects a small portion of them if I read it right. They might onky have 10% less vision or what not. It's too early to tell?
 
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JoshH

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They aren't blind? Their visual acuity is reduced. It doesn't say by how much and it says it affects a small portion of them if I read it right. They might onky have 10% less vision or what not. It's too early to tell?
If you had actually read my first post you would see that I state they aren't blind but partially blind. They might have only 5% less vision than normal clowns the point and question, still stands. :)
 

Kzang

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If you had actually read my first post you would see that I state they aren't blind but partially blind. They might have only 5% less vision than normal clowns the point and question, still stands. :)
I did read it. I wear glasses. I'm not blind or partially blind without my glasses. We don't know. People are quick with their pitchforks without solid info
 
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LukeWolf

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All of the designer clowns are pretty cool! I myself have orange storms and love them! But I think it is sad to see ORA or any breeder intentionally breed for a specific defect just to appeal to the market. Even one of my orange storms has an odd mouth, possibly from selective breeding??, but it doesn’t affect him luckily. Why are the PETA people all over people eating meat and not these types of companies that breed animals that can’t see just to make a buck?

(I’m not hating on ORA at all, I absolutely love their clowns and captive bred fish, I’m just talking in general)
 

TheHarold

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I don't mind the new types of clowns as long as it is not detrimental to the health of the fish.
But look at longfin clownfish, for example. No matter what, it is not debatable that they are bred for “health”. It certainly goes against evolution- making them slower and more fragile. I tried a pair and lost them- yes, managed to lose CLOWNFISH, to powerheads. They can barely swim.

Artificial selection for appearance is almost always detrimental to health. See dog breeding, etc.
 

Katrina71

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But look at longfin clownfish, for example. No matter what, it is not debatable that they are bred for “health”. It certainly goes against evolution- making them slower and more fragile. I tried a pair and lost them- yes, managed to lose CLOWNFISH, to powerheads. They can barely swim.

Artificial selection for appearance is almost always detrimental to health. See dog breeding, etc.
I prefer natural. I find jeopardizing health for aesthetics is unacceptable in pets or humans.
 

Phildago

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How do we define our boundaries? These aren't fish that are in the wild, they're in our tanks. Are blind fish that live in caves disabled? Are seahorses deformed and disabled? No, they're designed for a particular environment. It's the same selective breeding that occurs in the wild, with humans as the extrinsic factor rather than being eaten or decimated by an unfavorable trait in a harsh environment.
 
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JoshH

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I did read it. I wear glasses. I'm not blind or partially blind without my glasses. We don't know. People are quick with their pitchforks without solid info
No ones grabbing pitchforks here, we know enough that they are breeding these clowns knowing full well there vision is impaired. They very well could be partially blind, as you mentioned, we don't know. Regardless I think it's too far myself and I cringe at a company that's totally okay with practices like that.
 

Phildago

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But look at longfin clownfish, for example. No matter what, it is not debatable that they are bred for “health”. It certainly goes against evolution- making them slower and more fragile. I tried a pair and lost them- yes, managed to lose CLOWNFISH, to powerheads. They can barely swim.

Artificial selection for appearance is almost always detrimental to health. See dog breeding, etc.
The problem with dogs is the inbreeding, not the impact of asthetics. If you were to introduce some genetic variability you could then reduce many issue such as degenerative joints or cancer. Genetic defects that occur after the dogs would've likely been bread and contributed to the next generation.
 
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JoshH

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How do we define our boundaries? These aren't fish that are in the wild, they're in our tanks. Are blind fish that live in caves disabled? Are seahorses deformed and disabled? No, they're designed for a particular environment. It's the same selective breeding that occurs in the wild, with humans as the extrinsic factor rather than being eaten or decimated by an unfavorable trait in a harsh environment.
Natural evolution and humans breeding fish for cool colouring are two VERY different things.

The problem with dogs is the inbreeding, not the impact of asthetics. If you were to introduce some genetic variability you could then reduce many issue such as degenerative joints or cancer. Genetic defects that occur after the dogs would've likely been bread and contributed to the next generation.
Inbreeding to produce a pure breed could very well be looked at as for aesthetic reasons. Pure bred dog's are often judged by there colouring, height, tails, ears, etc as they relate to what proper pure bred features they are supposed to have and this can effect there price.
 

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I did read it. I wear glasses. I'm not blind or partially blind without my glasses. We don't know. People are quick with their pitchforks without solid info
As with your post, put your pitch fork down. Members are discussing and can have opposing opinions, as your welcome to yours:)
 
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