Do you think we have gone too far with clownfish breeding?

[D-Nak]

I don't know if this has already been addressed because admittedly I didn't read all of the posts in this thread, but... do we know how much clownfish rely on their eyesight to survive? How much of this is taken away when producing Zombie clownfish? Do we know how detrimental it is to their UV vision?

Here's an interesting article:

https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/nemo-s-cousins-have-a-special-way-of-finding-him

Until we have more answers, we won't be able to debate the topic with any validity.

 

[siggy]

Just saying.....I think they are ugly and the same with some of these clowns now adays

 

[Robert King]

You do know that not everyone has a small tank with just a couple of inhabitants where you could do your part and greatly increase the chance a single fish is fed. The ability of functional eyesight on par with it's co-inhabitants increases it's chance of survival. The clownfish is not a natural bottom dweller like a cave fish nor does it have increased sensitivity in other areas to overcome the lack of sight. It's ability to forage naturally on par with it's neighbors is hindered and because of that it should be discontinued in the breeding world.

I raise my larvae under dim light as many others do as well. If an albino darwin can make it past morph, I would venture to say they have no issues with their vision. They have never had a problem competing for food as they spend most of their juvenile life with their non-albino siblings. Sudden bright light is their only issue with vision. I see a few people referring to them as disabled. They are no more disabled than a person who likes or needs to wear sunglasses.

 

[Robert King]

This really shouldn't be up for debate at all if indeed the partial blindness is due to extensive human intervention breeding habits. If breeder continues to do it in an effort to make money off them then it's ridiculous imo.

There is no partial blindness, but a sensitivity to sudden bright light. Bright flashlights or camera flash should not be used for examining your fish, even the non-albino specimens.

 

[Berlibee]

It's not that bad then. I have difficulties to be in summer without sunglasses, I can say I understand them hehehe ...

 

[Robert King]

It's absolutely sickening if a breeder or company is selling and breeding disabled animals as a result of market demand. This is sickening. Color patterns is one thing, natural defects is one thing, but marketing the disability? That's sickening. That would result in a lifetime boycott of that company by myself unless they apologize and stop that practice.

I'm sorry if I already replied to this post but it seems that some people may be misinformed. Albinism does not mean the fish are partially blind or disabled in any way, shape, or form. It does however mean they may be sensitive to sudden bright lights as in camera flash or flashlight. Fish that would have a disability ie partial blindness since birth, would not, no matter what, make it to post morph. I'm not sure what type of apology you're looking for or why, but these Zombies are some of the healthiest fish out there. F1 from wild caught which are closer to what nature must have intended than we think.

 

[DSC reef]

There is no partial blindness, but a sensitivity to sudden bright light. Bright flashlights or camera flash should not be used for examining your fish, even the non-albino specimens.

With all due respect you have a lot to gain as your selling these fish so I can see your side of this but at what point is it to far? We all have our opinions and if ORA has to write something about the vision being affected it's to far to me. Again, just my opinion and I vote with my wallet.

 

[Tian]

So I got this email the other day about ORAs new breed of clown fish "Zombie Clowns". Reading through this these new clowns look pretty cool, not something I would want myself but I could see the allure to them.

Upon further reading near the bottom of the article theres a little disclaimer stating that contrary to belief these fish aren't blind, but partially blind.

I don't know for sure if this is a byproduct of the particular type of breeding it takes to get this type of clowns or not. But I would think it's somewhat related.

ORA Unleashes Zombie Clownfish on the Masses - CORAL Magazine

It's taken several years, but Robert King's Zombie Albino Black Clownfish will now see wider distribution as a result of breeding efforts by ORA.

www.reef2rainforest.com

So my question is, do you think we have gone too far trying to come up with new patterns of clowns? Have we gone so far as to accept breeding to the point of relatively disabled fish? What are your thoughts on this?

So I got this email the other day about ORAs new breed of clown fish "Zombie Clowns". Reading through this these new clowns look pretty cool, not something I would want myself but I could see the allure to them.

Upon further reading near the bottom of the article theres a little disclaimer stating that contrary to belief these fish aren't blind, but partially blind.

I don't know for sure if this is a byproduct of the particular type of breeding it takes to get this type of clowns or not. But I would think it's somewhat related.

ORA Unleashes Zombie Clownfish on the Masses - CORAL Magazine

It's taken several years, but Robert King's Zombie Albino Black Clownfish will now see wider distribution as a result of breeding efforts by ORA.

www.reef2rainforest.com

So my question is, do you think we have gone too far trying to come up with new patterns of clowns? Have we gone so far as to accept breeding to the point of relatively disabled fish? What are your thoughts on this?

Absolutely not. I have never seen any disability with the new Zombie Clownfish! I have seen multiple videos of them eating, baby brine shrimp, TDO, etc. If there were an issue with their eyesight, dont you think they would have never survived morph? In the multiple videos I have seen of them eating, there is no difference in how they get their food as with any other clownfish! Nature has a way of the strong survive, and for the Zombies to breed and raise to full grown proves there seems to be no issue with their eyesight. I happen to like the variety of the clowns, and these seem to be extremely strong, vibrant fish!

 

[Tian]

If that’s true, I just changed my opinion on the matter. NO animal should be bred partially blind simply for the aquarists enjoyment.

Is there any legitimate proof that they are blind? Or partially blind? I have seen no difference in their feeding habits than any other clownfish. All look very healthy and eating well.

 

[AtlCPA]

I’m not sure I really understand the issue here. Albinism is something that occurs in animals and humans. It’s a naturally occurring thing. Is a lack of melanin, that’s it. In humans, it increases the risk of skin cancer.......so should we disallow humans with Albinism to reproduce? Should we cull those humans?

I have a pair of these fish and they are beautiful and healthy. Some people don’t think so, and that’s fine.

 

[flsalty]

Show me on ORAs website where they state this. *Sips tea and eats some popcorn*

So ORA doesn't disclose this on their site? Even more reason not to buy from them.

 

[DSC reef]

Is there any legitimate proof that they are blind? Or partially blind? I have seen no difference in their feeding habits than any other clownfish. All look very healthy and eating well.

Did you even read the thread or the disclaimer ORA has written that has been posted? If you like your clown fish then great, some just won't support breeding like this as it leads to worse conditions for a fish. IMO it hinders others that are trying to captive breed to stop pulling from the ocean and makes these ridiculous abominations of clownfish seem more like the money grab it is. The fact that the breeder and others only joined to "defend" his practice proves just that.

 

[Braves Fan]

I really think the market will decide the issue ,, if your spending time developing a design that won't sell ,, what you have is a nice hobby ,, but what are you going to do with the fish ,,

 

[Robert King]

So ORA doesn't disclose this on their site? Even more reason not to buy from them.

I'm not sure what you think they should state?

 

[Robert King]

Did you even read the thread or the disclaimer ORA has written that has been posted? If you like your clown fish then great, some just won't support breeding like this as it leads to worse conditions for a fish. IMO it hinders others that are trying to captive breed to stop pulling from the ocean and makes these ridiculous abominations of clownfish seem more like the money grab it is. The fact that the breeder and others only joined to "defend" his practice proves just that.

My F1 Zombies are in my opinion, so much healthier than most of these designer clowns which are inbred over and over and over again. Zombies are nothing more than a rare and natural occurrence.

 

[flsalty]

I'm not sure what you think they should state?

You know very well they should be stating the problems with vision. They leave that out to make the fish more marketable. That should be obvious to you from reading all the negative comments.

 

[flsalty]

My F1 Zombies are in my opinion, so much healthier than most of these designer clowns which are inbred over and over and over again. Zombies are nothing more than a rare and natural occurrence.

So now your claim is you've had similar results with several different wild caught breeding pairs? ORA states their breeding stock came from you. How big is the gene pool providing these genetic defects?

 

[Robert King]

You know very well they should be stating the problems with vision. They leave that out to make the fish more marketable. That should be obvious to you from reading all the negative comments.

I know I've said this a time or two, but these fish have great vision but are sensitive to sudden bright lights! If they didn't, they would've never made it through morph which should be obvious to you if you read any of my replies.

 

[Robert King]

So now your claim is you've had similar results with several different wild caught breeding pairs? ORA states their breeding stock came from you. How big is the gene pool providing these genetic defects?

You lost me on this one. When or where did I make this claim. I have 1 wild caught pair that produce albino offspring making them first generation from wild caught. I'm not sure where you got several pair from any of my posts. Could you elaborate?

 

[Robert King]

You know very well they should be stating the problems with vision. They leave that out to make the fish more marketable. That should be obvious to you from reading all the negative comments.