Does anyone know if you can treat ich with hermit crabs in tank?

RoryJ · Jun 19, 2017

I think my coral beauty has ich..unfortunately I currently do not have a quarantine tank..He is the only one showing any symptoms..few white spots on tips of dorsal fin and what looks like possibly pop-eye..its a 110 FOWLR and stock is 2 clowns 4 green chromis 1 royal gramma and 4 hermit crabs..any help would greatly be appreciated.

GHsaltie · Jun 19, 2017

Unfortunately copper treatment is very harsh/fatal for inverts. Also treatment is difficult in a tank with rock because it can absorb the copper then release it at a later time which not only makes for unstable levels but harder to reintroduce inverts. Is it possible that you could get some pictures? The coral beauty may have ich or it may have something else, such as velvet or lympho. The eye could be an injury or it could an infection. Does it look damaged, cloudy, swollen? Also is the fish showing any odd behavior such as flashing/scratching, swimming into the flow of a powerhead/return, lethargy?
Again if you can get any pictures that would be awesome and would help us to help you

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RoryJ · Jun 19, 2017

GHsaltie said:
Unfortunately copper treatment is very harsh/fatal for inverts. Also treatment is difficult in a tank with rock because it can absorb the copper then release it at a later time which not only makes for unstable levels but harder to reintroduce inverts. Is it possible that you could get some pictures? The coral beauty may have ich or it may have something else, such as velvet or lympho. The eye could be an injury or it could an infection. Does it look damaged, cloudy, swollen? Also is the fish showing any odd behavior such as flashing/scratching, swimming into the flow of a powerhead/return, lethargy?
Again if you can get any pictures that would be awesome and would help us to help you .

I have been trying to get a pic but so far cant get a good one. His eye looks cloudy but not damaged, and showing no ill signs..eating and moving around pretty normally..eye is definitely pop looking tho, and the white spots are just on the very ends of the back and top fins.

GHsaltie · Jun 19, 2017

If the eye is just an injury and not an infection or parasite then you could try dosing epsom salt, 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons, to reduce swelling. Do the spots look like a fine dust or larger more like grains of salt? Here is a thread that hopefully can help you get a positive ID, make sure to check out Ich, velvet, and lymphocystis. There are also links for each disease/parasite that can help you get more familiar with it. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-disease-index-pictorial-guide.285708/
If you do have ich then the best and most assured way to get rid of the parasite is to treat in a QT. For the fish that you have a 20g would work as a QT and you could get some bottled bacteria such as dr tims or bio-spira to give it a jump start. Then just a HOB filter, heater, thermometer and some pvc pipes to hide in. Also I highly recommend the seachem ammonia badges as test kits readings become skewed with copper present.

GHsaltie · Jun 19, 2017

Although your original question doesn't apply to fish disease I tagged the mods to hopefully get it moved over to that section so we can get some more eyes on this thread. In the meantime I'll tag some of the others that may see something I've missed or have some more input. @Humblefish @melypr1985 @ngoodermuth

aykwm · Jun 20, 2017

Try to take a picture if you can so the experts can exactly identify the disease.
From the symptoms you mentioned it seems like lympho, spots on fin and a pop eye.

RoryJ · Jun 20, 2017

Ok I am trying to get a pic of this guy..not easy to do, lol..going to be setting up a QT tank as soon as possible..do i need to remove all fish or just the coral beauty?..also what about the hermit crabs?..I am thinking this is ich by doing research and looking at pics, but i know i need you guys to confirm...also when is set up QT tank can i take water from DT to fill?..My DT is fairly new only about 2 months from cycle

GHsaltie · Jun 20, 2017

If it is indeed ich then you will need to remove all the fish and treat them for 30 days in copper or ttm. The hermit crabs can be left in the DT but it needs to be left fallow (fishless) for 76 days in order to starve out the parasite. I would recommend that you use new saltwater to set up the QT and make sure you use some bottles bacteria to help with ammonia spikes. You can't use ammonia neutralizers such as prime in conjunction with copper so you will need to keep on top of the ammonia. That's why I recommend the seachem badges to have a constant watch on ammonia levels.

GHsaltie · Jun 20, 2017

Also you will want to use a chelated copper such as Mardel's coppersafe because dwarf angels are more sensitive to ionic copper. You will also want to get the API copper test kit to use with the coppersafe.

GHsaltie · Jun 20, 2017

Even if you are just able to get some video that might help with diagnosis some.

RoryJ · Jun 20, 2017

I am trying to get a pic or video posted as soon as possible...Do you believe a 20 gallon QT will be sufficient for 2 OC 4 Green Chromis 1 Royal Gramma and the Coral Beauty?

Humblefish · Jun 20, 2017

RoryJ said:
Do you believe a 20 gallon QT will be sufficient for 2 OC 4 Green Chromis 1 Royal Gramma and the Coral Beauty?

Yes, but I suggest using a HOB (e.g. Aquaclear, Bio-wheel) and a bottle of live bacteria for biological filtration in QT.

This explains is more detail: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ammonia-control-in-a-hospital-tank.296119/

ngoodermuth · Jun 20, 2017

I agree with @aykwm, it sounds like lympho and pop-eye. You could try dosing a little epsom salt for the eye. If it needs further treatment, QT and antibiotics would be the next step.

Here's a write-up on Lympho:

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Lymphocystis.257461/

Jinxs · Jun 20, 2017

Just for future reference in the case of ich, couldn't you treat with hyposalinity?

Humblefish · Jun 20, 2017

Jinxs said:
Just for future reference in the case of ich, couldn't you treat with hyposalinity?

Doesn't always work, as hypo resistant strains have been proven to exist.

Jinxs · Jun 20, 2017

Humblefish said:
Doesn't always work, as hypo resistant strains have been proven to exist.

Thank you for the response.

RoryJ · Jun 20, 2017

I hope some of these pics help for diagnose

GHsaltie · Jun 20, 2017

Are there any spots on the body of the fish? Like @ngoodermuth I have a strong feeling that your coral beauty has Lympho and not ich. It's very common in angels and usually shows up on the fins first. Good diet, vitamins, and antibiotics will all go a long way in helping the fish heal. That's not to say he doesn't have ich, that one spot on the right side has me suspicious but I can't tell with the blues on. Is it the left eye that is having the problem? I can't say with certainty but it doesn't look like it has very much cloudiness to it, so likely it's an injury and he just needs to heal. For antibiotics you could feed him some food soaked in kanaplex (bound with seachem focus) once a day for 10 days, that would give him a good head start, however I'm going to defer to one of the big wigs as to whether they think he is at the point of needing meds.