Does Cycling A Tank Before Adding Live Rock Increase The Chances That Hitchhikers Survive?

[OldRed1]

Hey everyone! I plan on adding 20 pounds of live rock to my 25 gallon AIO. From reading other posts on R2R, it seems that by adding live rock to a new tank that I can speed up the cycling process, which is great. But I am left to wonder: Will the hitchhikers that make it through transport have a better chance of surviving if they are added to a tank that is all ready cycled?

Thanks for your feedback!

 

[Bucs20fan]

You should be curing your live rock once you get it anyway. Dont put it straight into your DT as the dieoff will produce alot of ammonia. You want to manage this ammonia properly so you dont kill everything on the rock. If you add it straight to your DT you have no ablility to watch for hitch hikers and easily remove them. I recommend buying a tote or even a large bucket to cure the live rock from die off and remove anything unwanted.

 

[Acros]

Theoretically yes, however I would say no in practice.

You will have a mini cycle once you add the rocks. There will be die off during transport, which will give off ammonia and hence the cycle. Regardless, some hitchhikers will survive.

I had the same tank and used 20lbs gulf live rock.

Edit: Just looked at my build thread, I had a 12 day cycle once the rocks were added.

 

[OldRed1]

You should be curing your live rock once you get it anyway. Dont put it straight into your DT as the dieoff will produce alot of ammonia. You want to manage this ammonia properly so you dont kill everything on the rock. If you add it straight to your DT you have no ablility to watch for hitch hikers and easily remove them. I recommend buying a tote or even a large bucket to cure the live rock from die off and remove anything unwanted.

Got it, good to know. Any recommendations on how long to cure it for?

 

[OldRed1]

Theoretically yes, however I would say no in practice.

You will have a mini cycle once you add the rocks. There will be die off during transport, which will give off ammonia and hence the cycle. Regardless, some hitchhikers will survive.

I had the same tank and used 20lbs gulf live rock.

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Bucs20fan]

You should cure the rock with a container of some sort and a powerhead and a heater. If there is desired algae or corals on the live rock you will need a light. The curing time can vary but usually takes a few weeks. You will know when the cure is done when the "Smell" is gone and you no longer detect ammonia in your curing bin. You will have to do water changes as the ammonia rises.

 

[Tamberav]

Having it shipped in water would be ideal for keeping stuff alive. There a very rough cycle otherwise and doing large water changes to keep ammonia low would be the next best option to keep stuff alive.

When I had rock shipped overnight (KPA) or usps priority (gulf) , both packed in wet towels in a bag. There was significant die off and ammonia during the cycle. However a lot of stuff lived too that showed up later.

Shipping in water generally costs a lot more and means picking up at the airport but also almost no die off or cycle.

 

[OldRed1]

@LiverockRocks In your startup guide, you recommend that reefers do not cure live rock. Would your rock be safe to add directly to the tank without a cycle?

 

[brandon429]

No dieoff happens when using live rock from another aquarium, for example from a pet store to your house as true live rock transfer

All hitchhikers survive just fine, moving tanks isn't stressful at all to live rock.


Here's seven pages of tanks being skip cycled with live rock

A thread tracking pure skip cycle instant reefs, no bottle bac

THE GOLDEN EXAMPLE OF A SKIP CYCLE DAY 1 REEF https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/ read that entire thread before you read ours. that's the heart of skip cycling. Everything we do going forward in this thread reflects on that ability above, in the #1...

www.reef2reef.com

No ammonia, no mini cycles. That only happens with *uncured* ocean rocks. Live rock doesn't speed up a cycle, it skips the cycle instantly. This is how reef convention tanks all set up on time with no stalls past the start date.

If you buy uncured ocean rocks, then have them prepped by sitting in a holding container of fresh circulated saltwater with several water changes over a weeks time and that will cure fine

Your tank isn't going to support all the hikers on uncured rock, what you see in pics here for matured tanks is what the rock will cure down to over time. Before installing into your tank, cut out and remove any sponges, algae tufts, macro algae attached, tunicates... these are the things most likely to rot away so just surgically remove them before you begin the week long cure prep run if you're getting ocean rocks

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

You never said where you planned to get it from/what kind of live rock (ocean live rock, LFS live rock, etc.) Or ho/where you're transporting it from... If you don't want a mini cycle then just get live rock without all the sponges and things that might die off. If it's live ocean rock you don't need to do a conventional cycle since it's already fully colonized by bacteria and adding ammonia would actually kill some of the biodiversity. As far as hitchhikers go, the really bad ones seem to be rare (I just had a thread going about this very topic and got a ton of comments most of which reported few to no hitchhikers.) Even if you do get a few bad hitchhikers catching them in a 25 probably wouldn't be that difficult.

 

[OldRed1]

You never said where you planned to get it from/what kind of live rock (ocean live rock, LFS live rock, etc.) Or ho/where you're transporting it from... If you don't want a mini cycle then just get live rock without all the sponges and things that might die off. If it's live ocean rock you don't need to do a conventional cycle since it's already fully colonized by bacteria and adding ammonia would actually kill some of the biodiversity. As far as hitchhikers go, the really bad ones seem to be rare (I just had a thread going about this very topic and got a ton of comments most of which reported few to no hitchhikers.) Even if you do get a few bad hitchhikers catching them in a 25 probably wouldn't be that difficult.

At the moment, I am leaning most heavily towards purchasing live rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

At the moment, I am leaning most heavily towards purchasing live rock and sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater.

Then you wouldn't want to dose ammonia for a cycle because it would kill a lot of biodiversity due to the toxicity...if you want to avoid a mini cycle from die off on the rock, I think they will ship it in water if you want which would definitely help some or you could just talk to them about getting some pieces just covered in some nice coralline or something like that that won't cause an ammonia spike if it does die just a little as opposed to the pieces with tons of sponges and tunicates which may die and cause a chain reaction due to the released ammonia.

 

[OldRed1]

Then you wouldn't want to dose ammonia for a cycle because it would kill a lot of biodiversity due to the toxicity...if you want to avoid a mini cycle from die off on the rock, I think they will ship it in water if you want which would definitely help some or you could just talk to them about getting some pieces just covered in some nice coralline or something like that that won't cause an ammonia spike if it does die just a little as opposed to the pieces with tons of sponges and tunicates which may die and cause a chain reaction due to the released ammonia.

I definitely would not add ammonia after the rock was added to the tank. I was more so wondering if it was worth cycling before adding the rock. However, as you have suggested and as TBS writes in their guide, with their rocks there is no need for any cycling.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I definitely would not add ammonia after the rock was added to the tank. I was more so wondering if it was worth cycling before adding the rock. However, as you have suggested and as TBS writes in their guide, with their rocks there is no need for any cycling.

Exactly. I'd say hypothetically if it were a bigger system also using dry rock then I'd cycle with the dry rock before adding the live rock but with what you're describing to be your case you shouldn't need to cycle if you're using all live rock in a 25

 

[brandon429]

from TBS, you simply surgically remove the suggested items, keep the coralline and pods and some light attachments if you want to try them, keep them kept in a high water change container / no other additives required/ for 7-10 days and if the water doesn't stink at that time, you move them over as skip cycle rocks.


Testing for ammonia will not help you, it will only mislead you; folks who bring up totally barren rocks can't get a non digital ammonia test to reveal their start date, you'd have no chance using cured rocks the .5 reading will drive you insane

(and digitally, on seneye, you'd be .002-.006 maximum nh3, safe zone)

smelling the cure water at day 7-10 is the only verification you need. if it smells like rotten eggs, cure longer. if its ocean-y, then you're into what we did above for 7 pages.

 

[brandon429]

at no time, not ever as long as this rock is kept wet, will you need to feed bacteria or test for them in any way whatsoever. the live rock itself has permanent bacteria feed within all the crevices, as organic jerky packed in the pores, to last forever if you never fed the rock for ten years it wouldn't uncycle for the bacteria.

You need to score out of the rock any tunicates, sponges, and obvious algae growth and the rest will be fine if your shipping box doesn't break.


I would choose coralline live rock from a pet store any day over ocean cured rock. but I'd choose ocean cured rock any day over a dry rock + bottle bac start.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I'd choose ocean live rock over anything else, I just wouldn't get the stuff all decked out in macrofauna and other things likely to die...I get wild collected ocean rock with mainly just coralline available

 

[Reefing102]

So I guess I’ve gotten lucky. My live rock, all shipped overnight in wet newspaper/paper towels, I never had any cycle. I did a cursory check for bad hitchhikers and into the display it went. That said, this was also a pre-established tank with some existing rock and fish stock so it’s likely the current bacteria in the tank quickly took care of any die off.

 

[ReefGeezer]

I definitely would not add ammonia after the rock was added to the tank. I was more so wondering if it was worth cycling before adding the rock. However, as you have suggested and as TBS writes in their guide, with their rocks there is no need for any cycling.

If you are going to add a lot of live rock to the tank, no additional cycling will be required and could be counter- productive. To limit bacterial competition, you don't want to encourage a lot of bacterial growth before introducing that which will be included with the live rock. And...In my opinion, the very act of driving ammonia up to start an old school cycle just gives mother nature a signal to send all sorts of uglies. Your tank may never have a detectable ammonia rise if using quality live rock.

There are two grades of live rock available from most vendors, Base and Premium. Base rock has less of the complex life on it. That is the stuff that tends to die off and raise ammonia. It does contain suitable bacteria, coralline, and other cryptic organisms needed to establish the tank. It is usually only about 66% of the price of the premium rock to boot! This is what I would start the tank with. You can order the premium rock after the tank is better established if you think the tank needs a little diversity boost.

I also think that even base rock survives better, particularly the coralline, if shipped in water rather than in wet newspaper. I know, shipping with water is more expensive, but it is worth the price. Tampa Bay Saltwater is a quality vendor and provides direction for minimizing hitchhikers and acclimating the rock into the system. BTW, hitchhikes aren't the end of the world. I really think the threat is exaggerated.

 

[LiamPM]

This is a newly installed tank with no inhabitants in right?

I see no reason not to add it directly to the tank if so - Any hitchhikers that can survive shipping in a dry box with wet towels are most likely going to survive whatever waste the rock then gives off in the water too.

Adding it directly to the tank MAY give off some dieoff in the form of ammonia but if you are cycling this tank/rock then thats a bonus anyway. It will essentially just start your cycle for you without any effort needed - Obviously you would need to add to this.....


We dont really "cycle" water - We "cycle" surfaces as thats where the bacteria predominantly live. So you cant really "PRE-cycle" the tank without the rock in it to begin with - It would be counter productive and take an age to have very little effect.