dosing anecdotes of a fish keeper

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How would freon impact magnesium?

 

[aeras1131]

@Randy Holmes-Farley I am not 100% certain on the chemical reaction. Freon is a liquid when cooled and compressed, and it turns into a heavy gas when it is warm. If I had to do some some shotgun chemistry, I would imagine my skimmer was force inducting the freon into the aquarium since the freon gas was a portion of the air being force inducted into the saltwater aquarium. After it was forced into the aquarium, it might have been compressed into liquid. I will do more research but my hypothesis was that the freon compound was heavier then the Magnesium ions in the aquarium causing the magnesium ions to precipitate out of the aquarium.
Considering Magnesium is the lightest ion in our reef aquariums, this hypothesis seems logical. Anecdotally, I know I was dosing 90ml of ESV Bionic Mg to maintain magnesium levels. Per your statements, the only reason this could be the case was because of precipitation. This magnesium sink could not be explained away with magnesium consumption. Nothing in my aquarium should have caused this magnesium sink in my Reef. After discovering that the fridge was leaking freon, I determined that it might have been the issue. I waited one day from the removal of the fridge to test Mag. My tanks Mg went up 160ppm the day after the fridge installation with the past months dosing rate. This Mag increase after fridge change lines up perfectly.
Essentially, the Skimmer intake was force inducting air into the Reef as skimmers are won't to do this is typically beneficial for our aquariums. However, the skimmer was force inducting the freon laden air causing my light magnesium ions to precipitate out of the water column. Air heavy in freon actually is more difficult to breath which was how we determined that our fridge was leaking refrigerant. Since the freon leak is no longer happening, I no longer have to dose Magnesium.
I know that this is a specialized situation, but it should serve as an early warning for people who measure a rapid decline in magnesium ions in their reefs. How many people are going to have a freon leak in their fridge? Probably very few, but this could have happened to any aquarist. The Magnesium precipitation was causing an ancillary issue. Because Magnesium ions were being precipitated rapidly at a daily rate of change of 80 ppm per day. This was causing rapid calcium precipitation as well. I noticed a chemical reaction was occurring. Because the magnesium in my aquarium was hyper-depleting Magnesium, my tank would no longer support super saturation of calcium after only a few days time. Calcium was precipitating out of the aquarium at a daily precipitation rate in a 2:1 ratio of the Magnesium depletion, I.E. 2 Parts Magnesium to 1 part Ca.
As you would image this would cause your ph to rapidly become depressed. This was actually the reason why I accidentally used Kent superbuffer. I was ignorant and did not know that it was not a suitable product for reef use. It is high in borate ions stabilizing alk, but it is an artificial alk buff. I am still paying for this mistake with water changes. Everything is back to normal in my aquarium. However, if I was not acutely aware of my aquarium chemistry. I actually ended up purchasing my GHL Doser 2.1 to combat the symptoms of hyper-magnesium precipitation. Now I have an amazing doser. Honestly, I am glad it happened, but this could have been disastrous for my reef.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No, you definitely did not get liquid freon in your aquarium. It is not stable at that temperature, it will just turn to gas and disappear. It is also will have zero impact on magnesium levels even if you directly bubbled freon gas into your aquarium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I know that this is a specialized situation, but it should serve as an early warning for people who measure a rapid decline in magnesium ions in their reefs. How many people are going to have a freon leak in their fridge? Probably very few, but this could have happened to any aquarist.

Freon is not the cause of any magnesium issues in any reef aquarium.

 

[Newb73]

After reading Randys posts im convinced the problem is with a combination of inconsistent salt mixes and water changes and an inherent inaccuracy in using hobby grade test kits.

 

[cchomistek]

I hate to hijack your thread but I wonder about aquaforest compenent 123 where they state that you are to dose each in equal amounts. Either they have very little mg in the compenent 3 or this should not work long term. And thoughts @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I hate to hijack your thread but I wonder about aquaforest compenent 123 where they state that you are to dose each in equal amounts. Either they have very little mg in the compenent 3 or this should not work long term. And thoughts @Randy Holmes-Farley

There are many ways to formulate these sorts of additives, and Aquaforest uses a hybrid approach that could work fine.

A. In ordinary Balling, the parts are:

1. Calcium chloride
2. Sodium carbonate/bicarbonate
3. Sodium chloride free salt mix (everything in a salt mix except sodium chloride)​

B. In an ordinary two part (such as ESV B-ionic)

1. Calcium chloride plus other ions that are compatible with calcium (magnesium, potassium, bromide, iron, etc.)
2. Sodium carbonate/bicarbonate plus other ions that are compatible with carbonate (sulfate, potassium, bromide, etc.)​

C. In a DIY two part (such as from BRS ) and some commercial brands [this recipe allows use of magnesium sulfate as a sulfate source]

1. Calcium chloride
2. Sodium carbonate/bicarbonate
3. Magnesium sulfate and magnesium chloride
​

Aquaforest uses a hybrid approach:

1. Calcium chloride plus other ions that are compatible with calcium (Sr, Ba, Co, Mn, Cu, Fe, Zn, Ni, Cr)
2. Sodium bicarbonate
3. Something like Sodium chloride free salt mix (minus what they added extra in 1) [they say: Mg, Reef Mineral Salt, K and B]​

 

[aeras1131]

Hello @Randy Holmes-Farley,
I am going to come back with another months worth of data. I have discontinued dosing mag. My magnesium has been pretty stead at around ~1280ppm since the fridge has changed. Lets reopen this discussion in a month. Can we please avoid hijacking this thread?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello @Randy Holmes-Farley,
I am going to come back with another months worth of data. I have discontinued dosing mag. My magnesium has been pretty stead at around ~1280ppm since the fridge has changed. Lets reopen this discussion in a month.

OK, let us know what you find.