Dosing Kalkwasser via ATO- how do you maintain your water levels/reservoir?

[Trever]

I'm trying to understand how I will maintain my ATO reservoir if I put kalk directly in it. Looking for slick systems that folks might have. Perhaps I'm being dumb, but it doesn't seem trivial, though dosing Kalkwasser via ATO does seem best (given my system).

The TL;DNR:

I have the regular tunze ATO (not the nano). The Tunze pump just sits inside a 5 gallon bucket next to the sump. The bucket (ATO reservoir) has two holes drilled in the sides near the top. This is where the electrical and the water lines go in for the Tunze pump. I have a big screw top lid on the bucket, which makes it easy to both seal and open the bucket to refill and for water level inspection (found the lid at Home Depot). But if I ever needed to remove the pump, it would mean fussing with removing the water line to the pump itself (it was not easy to attach that line to the pump) and removing the raw electrical wires from the Tunze "clamps"- those crazy things Tunze provides to connect the electrical to the Tunze controller. Thus, removing the Tunze pump from the ATO reservoir is something I try to avoid having to do.

If I'm understanding correctly, once I start putting kalk in the bucket (i.e. the ATO reservoir), I'm going to have to remove the pump regularly to remove the bucket (ATO reservoir) from my office here and clean out the bucket. This is the kind of chore I try to avoid, as it will be futzy and I'll postpone it accordingly. Hence, looking for cleaner/simpler solutions.

There are also questions in my mind about water levels and dosing correctly, since now I just add RODI water to the reservoir whenever it starts to get lowish. Seems if I'm dosing, I'll have to do this in a more measured fashion?

So.... (sorry for the length!)... given all of that, this looks extremely handy and simplifying: https://www.tunze.com/fileadmin/gebrauchsanleitungen/x5074.8888.pdf

Dang thing is ridiculously expensive though, and might not be simplifying- it might add complexity compared to just putting kalk in the ATO 5 gallon bucket I use.

BRS doesn't carry that Tunze Calc dispenser it seems. I'm getting the impression is isn't commonly used, which tends to tell me something...

I'm also a little unclear how people keep their ATO pumps out of the slurry on the bottom of the ATO reservoir. I guess if I'm dosing small amounts, there may be no slurry? If there is slurry, BRS has a video where they talk about putting the pump in a cup that sits in the reservoir. I'd plan to just suspend the pump via shortening the return line to hang it from that. But now we're back to fussing with the lines that I'd like to avoid.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

I have recently switched back to Kalk after my move as I find it easier then redialing in dosing pumps with the new head pressure and gravity messing with me. I mix it in a bucket and skim off the top layer and pour it into my ATO to leave the sludge in the mixing bucket. I used egg crate to prop the pump 1/2" off the bottom of the ATO bucket. The plan is a monthly bath in citric acid and clean out the ATO bucket then or go back to dosing if I get too annoyed at doing the kalk mixing/cleaning. I hear ya loud and clear, I hate the kalk sludge.

 

[dwest]

I’m not following all of your note to be honest. But, you do definitely want to elevate the pump. It needs to not have the ability to pump the sludge out. Ever.

Also, when I used kalk in my ATO, my pump cord and kalk line just came out the top. The lid (I used a trash can) sat loosely on top. Kalk will form a calcium carbonate skin on top that will prevent a reaction below the skin layer. It’s not really necessary to have the air tight lid.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

So definitely leave the layer on the top or am I screwing myself over by mixing, skimming it and pouring it into another container?

 

[dwest]

So definitely leave the layer on the top or am I screwing myself over by mixing, skimming it and pouring it into another container?

You can do either. If you take off the top layer, it will almost certainly just form another one.

I use a Kalk stirrer now, but used Kalk in my ATO for over 20 years. I found it it was easiest to mix it up once in the trash can and let the ATO pump it out as needed. I cleaned mine out about once a year with a garden hose. But you absolutely have to make sure you don’t pump the sludge. Once I pumped sludge into my reef and it was mostly undissolved kalk. It’s the only coral “nuke” I’ve had so far. Bad day...

 

[dwest]

So definitely leave the layer on the top or am I screwing myself over by mixing, skimming it and pouring it into another container?

I was also replying to the OP the first time. I didn’t see your reply until after I wrote my original reply. Good luck with kalk.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

You can do either. If you take off the top layer, it will almost certainly just form another one.

I use a Kalk stirrer now, but used Kalk in my ATO for over 20 years. I found it it was easiest to mix it up once in the trash can and let the ATO pump it out as needed. I cleaned mine out about once a year with a garden hose. But you absolutely have to make sure you don’t pump the sludge. Once I pumped sludge into my reef and it was mostly undissolved kalk. It’s the only coral “nuke” I’ve had so far. Bad day...

Solid lesson to be learned. I better make sure my pump is high enough relative to the intake slots. Thanks

 

[nereefpat]

I would add that an ATO isn't really the best way to add kalk, since evaporation isn't constant. Some kind of timed dosing system is better.

 

[Trever]

@dwest I'm thinking something like that is what I'll have to do (cords straight out the top) to keep it simple.

Mr. Salt Water Aquarium has a video where he says the problems that arise from exposing kalkwasser liquid to air are a myth- the potency loss is negligible, so no worries about seals (ATO H2O will evaporate some, but ok):


I'm tempted to buy that Tunzi Calcium dispenser. It looks slick and keeps all the kalk "management" fully inline with the ATO but entirely away from the ATO at the same time.

I did see a video where someone said dosing kalk mixed ATO water into their sump return chamber caused their Tunze optical eye to get covered over and blocked. I would think that was too potent a mix the guy was adding, and also that the Tunze dispenser would prevent that because it further dilutes the kalk solution. That said, my sump's return chamber is fairly small, so "a lot" of dilution will not be taking place there- I'd guess.

 

[Alchameth]

I used those 7G water jugs for ATO, I had 2 of them and I removed the spout from the cap and ran the tube and electrical through that hole. I'd mix a jug 1-2 days before I had to change jugs; that gives it time to both settle and an opportunity to rinse out last weeks jug to keep it from getting nasty.

If I remember the film is from Co2 in the air, so it will always come back.

I ended up going with the Avast kalk stirrer, makes it much easier and don't have to worry about burning out the ATK pump

 

[boacvh]

Solid lesson to be learned. I better make sure my pump is high enough relative to the intake slots. Thanks

To avoid this I put the ATO pump inside of a small pyrex. That way it never touched the sludge.

 

[dwest]

@dwest I'm thinking something like that is what I'll have to do (cords straight out the top) to keep it simple.

Mr. Salt Water Aquarium has a video where he says the problems that arise from exposing kalkwasser liquid to air are a myth- the potency loss is negligible, so no worries about seals (ATO H2O will evaporate some, but ok):


I'm tempted to buy that Tunzi Calcium dispenser. It looks slick and keeps all the kalk "management" fully inline with the ATO but entirely away from the ATO at the same time.

I did see a video where someone said dosing kalk mixed ATO water into their sump return chamber caused their Tunze optical eye to get covered over and blocked. I would think that was too potent a mix the guy was adding, and also that the Tunze dispenser would prevent that because it further dilutes the kalk solution. That said, my sump's return chamber is fairly small, so "a lot" of dilution will not be taking place there- I'd guess.

I watched the video. I agree with him and you that the air is not a problem. I have read a couple of times as well about the optical eye blockage. I don’t use that particular technology for my ATO so I can’t really comment. I use a Spectrapure system that has a pressure switch. Good luck.

 

[Trever]

@Alchameth I hear that, but I can buy 7 Tunze replacement pumps for the cost of that Avast and I have no place to put the reactor, and then have to figure out how to dose (most importantly), as I understand it.

Advocates of the use kalk+ATO are all about saying that the ATO doses well enough, and it's there, so it keeps things simple. Some folks apparently dose manually twice a day, whereas the ATO is more like a dripper or timed dosing (which I also don't want to get into yet).

 

[Trever]

@boacvh that's what BRS recommends, but I'm stupid I guess: how come there's no sludge in the pyrex!? I guess anything settling out over time is being quickly diluted by the fresher water the pump pulls into the cup from above the sludge?

 

[boacvh]

@Alchameth I hear that, but I can buy 7 Tunze replacement pumps for the cost of that Avast and I have not place to put it, and then have to figure out how to dose, as I understand it.

I was on same boat. But then I realized my evaporation was so uneven that kalk in my ATO was creating stability problems for me. I switched to an Avast stirrer and yes, it takes a while to find sweet spot but is way more stable now. Anyway, both options work and I think is matter of preference, but if evaporation is too uneven it's definitely something to consider.

 

[Alchameth]

@Alchameth I hear that, but I can buy 7 Tunze replacement pumps for the cost of that Avast and I have not place to put it, and then have to figure out how to dose, as I understand it.

I get that, I debated on that for months and it came down to was really the not having to mix anything anymore, little less maintenance and better stability on the mix that gets added.. They have a calculator on their site that tells you how much to put into the stirrer based on your evaporation over a 1 or 2 week period.

Not having to worry about a pump is part of it, just the overall ease and knowing I won't get any of that sludge in my tank and that the water that goes in is fully saturated. Space is tight on my new build so I will be putting it in my sump right next to my skimmer.

 

[boacvh]

@boacvh that's what BRS recommends, but I'm stupid I guess: how come there's no sludge in the pyrex!? I guess anything settling out over time is being quickly diluted by the fresher water the pump pulls into the cup from above the sludge?

I believe that's correct. The surface of the pyrex is pretty small so it doesn't have as much time to settle. I never saw sludge inside the pyrex

 

[Trever]

I get that, I debated on that for months and it came down to was really the not having to mix anything anymore, little less maintenance and better stability on the mix that gets added.. They have a calculator on their site that tells you how much to put into the stirrer based on your evaporation over a 1 or 2 week period.

Not having to worry about a pump is part of it, just the overall ease and knowing I won't get any of that sludge in my tank and that the water that goes in is fully saturated. Space is tight on my new build so I will be putting it in my sump right next to my skimmer.

Hmmm... not sure I fully understand the product. Replaces ATO? Works with ATO? I need to review that.

 

[Trever]

Hey man, he changed his tune re ATO vs. reactor:

 

[ReefBeta]

To answer your direct question, when I use kalk in ATO, I have separate buckets to mix kalk, and use saturated kalk solution to refill the reservoir. I never directly put kalk powder into ATO reservoir, so there is no problem of slurp. For the most convenience, have two buckets/containers. One container as the mix station, and plumb an outlet an inch from bottom, so that you can get the solution out without moving that container at all. That way you can get very clean solution. Use a separate container to transfer solution from the mix station to your reservoir.