Dosing Kalkwasser via ATO- how do you maintain your water levels/reservoir?

[Alchameth]

@Trever works with ATO. You just run your ATO line into the top of the stirrer and then it gravity drips out the top side. There is a barb fitting you can hook up 1/2 flex to and put that in whatever chamber in your sump you want. I drop it in by the skimmer to get it mixed up nice and good before it hits the tank.

 

[ReefBeta]

Couple additional points on kalk dosing.

1. I think the kalk dispenser you mention is basically a kalk stirrer. There are couple different options available, like from Avast Marine and TLF. I am using the avast marine one. Never tried the TLF one.
2. If possible, it's best to add kalk using dosing pump instead of going through ATO, because the amount of evaporation is not always the same day to day. If you don't have a stirrer, then you will need two reservoir, one with RO and one with saturated kalk solution, and I can see it difficult to accommodate. But if you added a kalk stirrer, then both ATO and kalk dosing can come from the same reservoir. A Kamoer X1 dosing pump will be sufficient for the task. That's what I'm using on my 180G system.

 

[Trever]

@zsxking thank you. Yes- several times I have thought "Wait a minute, I'm over complicating this- I just ordered the BRS kit and I believe it comes with mixing containers- so there's no putting kalk right in the ATO reservoir".

At the minute amounts I'll be starting with, should be simple, as the solution I image would be very dilute. My system is small (38 gallons), so may always remain simple.

I'm still annoyed though at the idea of having to apart my pump/reservoir for added cleaning, though I need to do that anyways even with just water, though probably far less frequently. Have to figure out a new way to plumb/run the lines the bucket.

 

[ReefBeta]

@zsxking thank you. Yes- several times I have thought "Wait a minute, I'm over complicating this- I just ordered the BRS kit and I believe it comes with mixing containers- so there's no putting kalk right in the ATO reservoir".

At the minute amounts I'll be starting with, should be simple, as the solution I image would be very dilute. My system is small (38 gallons), so may always remain simple.

I'm still annoyed though at the idea of having to apart my pump/reservoir for added cleaning, though I need to do that anyways even with just water, though probably far less frequently. Have to figure out a new way to plumb/run the lines the bucket.

I don't think I ever cleaned my ATO reservoir that contains just RODI water. After couple years it still look as clean as new. I also rarely put my hand into it though, that probably help too.

 

[Trever]

I don't think I ever cleaned my ATO reservoir that contains just RODI water. After couple years it still look as clean as new. I also rarely put my hand into it though, that probably help too.

Yeah- though I have some small amount of detritus in the bottom of mine. I dunno - I guess dust flies in there when I open it. I haven't had a reason to put my hand in there and avoid that.

 

[Trever]

@Alchameth and @zsxking I guess I'm not understanding the full value of having a "mixer", as opposed to manually mixing kalk in a solution that is then added to the ATO water.

 

[boacvh]

@Alchameth and @zsxking I guess I'm not understanding the full value of having a "mixer", as opposed to manually mixing kalk in a solution that is then added to the ATO water.

In my case, I would say the most valuable part is that I can tell how much kalk I am dosing when dosing from the mixer. With kalk in the ATO, it's really up to how stable your evaporation is. Mine is very uneven. So some days the ATO would dose a lot and some others very little. With the mixer I dose the exact same amount every day

 

[ReefBeta]

@Alchameth and @zsxking I guess I'm not understanding the full value of having a "mixer", as opposed to manually mixing kalk in a solution that is then added to the ATO water.

If you use ATO to add kalk, it doesn't really change things fundamentally or make it more or less stable. It just makes maintenance a bit easier. For one it keep reservoir clean for not having kalk in it. For second it can last every long. I literally just dumb the whole 1lb bag of kalk into the stirrer and it last me for months.

It really make a difference when you use a separate doser to does kalk instead of ATO. But if you're not doing that, you don't really need a stirrer.

 

[boacvh]

Quick parenthesis = @Trever just went through your thread, your aquascape looks great btw!

 

[Alchameth]

@Alchameth and @zsxking I guess I'm not understanding the full value of having a "mixer", as opposed to manually mixing kalk in a solution that is then added to the ATO water.

The stirrer I use has a slow rpm motor constantly mixing the kalk, that means I get max saturation and and crystal clear water going into the tank. Also, since the ATO adds water to the mixer at the bottom kalk level it stirs up but the pump never runs long enough that it goes into the tank and settles by the next time it kicks on. I put enough in the stirrer that I only have to add kalk to that about every 3-4 weeks too, so just top off my ATO res when it needs it. The saturated water is always saturated from day 1 till I add more kalk, so it's consistent. Now yes evap changes by time of year, so there will be some flux but less so for me here in AZ. I actually run a dehumidifier to keep my house around 40%... and I pull about 1.5G out of the air every 1-2 days.

 

[Flippers4pups]

I use Calcium Hydroxide in my ATO and have for decades. I have never maxed out my dosing of CH in my ATO reservoir. I have always done one teaspoon per gallon of RO/DI water. Here in the midwest we have changes in humidity, as a great deal of hobbyists here in the US go through. When humidity is lower, I dose less into the reservoir. When it's higher, I dose more. This isn't done daily or weekly or monthly, It's seasonal.

I never had any issues with PH or alkalinity doing it this way.

As far as the precipitation from the kalkwasser at the bottom of the reservoir, it's a non issue. Once a month I vacuum it out.

Unless you using lab grade Calcium hydroxide, using it in a stirrer can add the sediment from the kalkwasser. The sediment can have some heavy metals in it and won't add any benefit from the mixed kalkwasser. Once the powder is added and mixed, the clear liquid is the only thing that has the calcium and alkalinity you want, the sediment does nothing. Yes your container needs to be sealed as to keep C02 from degrading the solution.

Dosing through a ATO can be done easily by setting your pump higher than the bottom of the container so as to not "suck" up the sediment.

Hope this clarifies some concerns or misconceptions of using Kalkwasser.

 

[Trever]

Lot's of ways... I think for where I'm at now, which is on the border line of even having to add kalk or not (yet), I'm overthinking it. Still, I have the BRS beginner kit arriving and was trying to figure out "then what". Maybe it will be more clear when the kit comes, but lot's of options are described here. ;Bookworm

 

[Flippers4pups]

Lot's of ways... I think for where I'm at now, which is on the border line of even having to add kalk or not (yet), I'm overthinking it. Still, I have the BRS beginner kit arriving and was trying to figure out "then what". Maybe it will be more clear when the kit comes, but lot's of options are described here. ;Bookworm

An overall answer to "when" to start using kalkwasser would depend on several things. One is weekly water changes can't keep alkalinity and calcium stable. Two would be the growth of your hard corals (LPS and SPS) is sufficient to add Kalkwasser.

Kalkwasser is a excellent addition to keep alkalinity, calcium more stable and helps with PH.

 

[boacvh]

Lot's of ways... I think for where I'm at now, which is on the border line of even having to add kalk or not (yet), I'm overthinking it. Still, I have the BRS beginner kit arriving and was trying to figure out "then what". Maybe it will be more clear when the kit comes, but lot's of options are described here. ;Bookworm

yup, tons of ways. None of them right or wrong. Just some adjust better to your personality and tank regimen IMO. If you ask me you are taking the right path which is coming here and asking all this questions and then you can decide which path is best for you with the best info.

 

[92Miata]

I was on same boat. But then I realized my evaporation was so uneven that kalk in my ATO was creating stability problems for me. I switched to an Avast stirrer and yes, it takes a while to find sweet spot but is way more stable now. Anyway, both options work and I think is matter of preference, but if evaporation is too uneven it's definitely something to consider.

Absolutely this. Whenever your evap changes so does your dosing with ATO/kalk. You're much better off just using a dosing pump and dosing it on its own.

Look how much my ATO usage has changed in the last month. Those would be ALK spikes.

 

[dragon99]

I ran kalk via ATO for several years with no major problem.

Seasonal shifting of evaporation did occur (spring and fall for me). Easy to deal with as long as you track Alk.

Cleaning the ato in your case should be super easy if you have another 5g bucket. Simply swap them out. I cleaned the Tunze pump a couple times a year by soaking in vinegar or muriatic acid. You should be able to do that without having to remove the tubing and power.

 

[Trever]

The stirrer I use has a slow rpm motor constantly mixing the kalk, that means I get max saturation and and crystal clear water going into the tank. Also, since the ATO adds water to the mixer at the bottom kalk level it stirs up but the pump never runs long enough that it goes into the tank and settles by the next time it kicks on. I put enough in the stirrer that I only have to add kalk to that about every 3-4 weeks too, so just top off my ATO res when it needs it. The saturated water is always saturated from day 1 till I add more kalk, so it's consistent. Now yes evap changes by time of year, so there will be some flux but less so for me here in AZ. I actually run a dehumidifier to keep my house around 40%... and I pull about 1.5G out of the air every 1-2 days.

@Alchameth and @zsxking ok I think I understand these reactors now. You're right I believe, the Tunze is the same thing without the ongoing stirring.

They show it well here:


Don't think I'll need this for at least awhile, but we'll see. I'm lazy- want to make the maintenance easiest.

 

[Trever]

Cleaning the ato in your case should be super easy if you have another 5g bucket. Simply swap them out. I cleaned the Tunze pump a couple times a year by soaking in vinegar or muriatic acid. You should be able to do that without having to remove the tubing and power.

Well... the point is, the way my wires run, it's impossible to swap buckets without removing the ATO water line from the pump and removing the wires from the controller. And this seems like fussy mucking around I'm trying to work around, hence the discussion of the Tunze and other dosers.

The responses here and other research makes me think however that one can simply add a solution to the ATO reservoir and not worry much, ever. Especially for me, to start with, where concentration will be as low as possible.

 

[RobB'z Reef]

I'm trying to understand how I will maintain my ATO reservoir if I put kalk directly in it. Looking for slick systems that folks might have. Perhaps I'm being dumb, but it doesn't seem trivial, though dosing Kalkwasser via ATO does seem best (given my system).

The TL;DNR:

I have the regular tunze ATO (not the nano). The Tunze pump just sits inside a 5 gallon bucket next to the sump. The bucket (ATO reservoir) has two holes drilled in the sides near the top. This is where the electrical and the water lines go in for the Tunze pump. I have a big screw top lid on the bucket, which makes it easy to both seal and open the bucket to refill and for water level inspection (found the lid at Home Depot). But if I ever needed to remove the pump, it would mean fussing with removing the water line to the pump itself (it was not easy to attach that line to the pump) and removing the raw electrical wires from the Tunze "clamps"- those crazy things Tunze provides to connect the electrical to the Tunze controller. Thus, removing the Tunze pump from the ATO reservoir is something I try to avoid having to do.

If I'm understanding correctly, once I start putting kalk in the bucket (i.e. the ATO reservoir), I'm going to have to remove the pump regularly to remove the bucket (ATO reservoir) from my office here and clean out the bucket. This is the kind of chore I try to avoid, as it will be futzy and I'll postpone it accordingly. Hence, looking for cleaner/simpler solutions.

There are also questions in my mind about water levels and dosing correctly, since now I just add RODI water to the reservoir whenever it starts to get lowish. Seems if I'm dosing, I'll have to do this in a more measured fashion?

So.... (sorry for the length!)... given all of that, this looks extremely handy and simplifying: https://www.tunze.com/fileadmin/gebrauchsanleitungen/x5074.8888.pdf

Dang thing is ridiculously expensive though, and might not be simplifying- it might add complexity compared to just putting kalk in the ATO 5 gallon bucket I use.

BRS doesn't carry that Tunze Calc dispenser it seems. I'm getting the impression is isn't commonly used, which tends to tell me something...

I'm also a little unclear how people keep their ATO pumps out of the slurry on the bottom of the ATO reservoir. I guess if I'm dosing small amounts, there may be no slurry? If there is slurry, BRS has a video where they talk about putting the pump in a cup that sits in the reservoir. I'd plan to just suspend the pump via shortening the return line to hang it from that. But now we're back to fussing with the lines that I'd like to avoid.

It's a bit of a video but essentially I use a container to hold pure RO water that can dose either that or Kalk based on evaporation by your choice. I have two independent controllers. One is spectrapure to control the level in my ATO container, the other a 3155 tunze to control the water level in my sump. Combined with an Avast Marine kalk stirrer, no kalk passes thru a pump in this configuration.

 

[dwest]

Well... the point is, the way my wires run, it's impossible to swap buckets without removing the ATO water line from the pump and removing the wires from the controller. And this seems like fussy mucking around I'm trying to work around, hence the discussion of the Tunze and other dosers.

The responses here and other research makes me think however that one can simply add a solution to the ATO reservoir and not worry much, ever. Especially for me, to start with, where concentration will be as low as possible.

I agree. I would try it with your ATO. There is no added cost and you can learn how this method works. Measure alkalinity and add as much kalk to keep your alkalinity fairly constant. Later, your tank may or may not need more alkalinity than saturated kalk can provide. But that is down the road likely.

Keep the kalk pump elevated off the bottom of the kalk reservoir and maintain alkalinity and you will be fine.