Dosing NeoNitro correlated with raising alkalinity?

[Daftendire]

Greetings,

My 30 gallon reef is about 5 months old. I've always had undetectable nitrates via the Nyos test kit. On 6/2/21 I began dosing 4 ml NeoNitro daily, and since then my alkalinity has risen from 8.6 to 10.6. I took my doser (All For Reef) offline on 6/11/21 to take that variable out after I noticed the Alk increase. My salt mix (IO) alk measures at around 8.8 dKH. RODI water is 0 TDS via 7 stage BRS kit, assuming this is not the alk source due to the timings of neonitro and alk rise.

Also the NeoNitro has not raised my nitrates to a detectable level. For my own sanity, I placed a drop of NN into the Nyos test kit to verify that I'm not color blind. The test tube did indeed turn yellow/orange.

I searched around the forums and only found one thread hinting that NeoNitro could raise alk (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/can-alkalinity-increase-on-it’s-own.598875/)
But that thread had no conclusion and the OP is inactive.

Other than a sump full of rock with sponges, tube worms and an emerald crab there is no mechanical filtration on this system (no skimmer, no fuge, typically no filter pads) only bi weekly 5% water changes).
Stocking list: 2 juvenile clowns, possum wrasse, 25 gallon CUC from reefcleaners.
Phosphate: 0.03
salinity 1.026ish

Questions: Has anyone else had similar experiences with NeoNitro? Should I abandon the NN, ignore my low nitrates and just increase feedings?

Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, dosing nitrate will raise alkalinity when the nitrate is consumed.

The reaction taking place for consumption by organisms is:
equation 3 (below) shows the uptake of nitrate and CO2 into macroalgae to form typical organic molecules:

122 CO2 + 122 H2O + 16 NO3- --> C106H260O106N16 + 138 O2 + 16 HCO3-

It shows that one bicarbonate ion is produced for each nitrate ion consumed. So for each 50 ppm of nitrate, 2.3 dKH of alkalinity is added.

If 50 ppm of nitrate is consumed, the alkalinity will rise by 0.8 meq/L (2.3 dKH).

 

[Daftendire]

Thanks for that information Randy. I guess there is no way to know at what point the nitrate consumption will slow down to where I could have detectable levels and an alkalinity that isn't sky high?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for that information Randy. I guess there is no way to know at what point the nitrate consumption will slow down to where I could have detectable levels and an alkalinity that isn't sky high?

No, but if high alk is an issue, feeding more is an alternative, as is dosing ammonia (slowly and carefully).

Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

So, after an interesting discussion on nitrate dosing and looking at my Walt Disney coral and seeing it slightly less colorful than I have seen it in others tanks, I have decided I want to learn about and then try dosing ammonia instead of buying 20 damsels. Nitrate additives I see abound and...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ClownWrangler]

Greetings,

My 30 gallon reef is about 5 months old. I've always had undetectable nitrates via the Nyos test kit. On 6/2/21 I began dosing 4 ml NeoNitro daily, and since then my alkalinity has risen from 8.6 to 10.6. I took my doser (All For Reef) offline on 6/11/21 to take that variable out after I noticed the Alk increase. My salt mix (IO) alk measures at around 8.8 dKH. RODI water is 0 TDS via 7 stage BRS kit, assuming this is not the alk source due to the timings of neonitro and alk rise.

Also the NeoNitro has not raised my nitrates to a detectable level. For my own sanity, I placed a drop of NN into the Nyos test kit to verify that I'm not color blind. The test tube did indeed turn yellow/orange.

I searched around the forums and only found one thread hinting that NeoNitro could raise alk (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/can-alkalinity-increase-on-it’s-own.598875/)
But that thread had no conclusion and the OP is inactive.

Other than a sump full of rock with sponges, tube worms and an emerald crab there is no mechanical filtration on this system (no skimmer, no fuge, typically no filter pads) only bi weekly 5% water changes).
Stocking list: 2 juvenile clowns, possum wrasse, 25 gallon CUC from reefcleaners.
Phosphate: 0.03
salinity 1.026ish

Questions: Has anyone else had similar experiences with NeoNitro? Should I abandon the NN, ignore my low nitrates and just increase feedings?

Thanks

I would recommend avoiding any product like this all together that does not disclose the full NPK content as well as minors. This product contains nitrate in undisclosed forms, which means it may or may not raise potassium levels as well depending on the nitrogen source. Seachem's product discloses this as a 1-0-2 ratio, which indicates just how much you will be raising potassium levels as well.

 

[ClownWrangler]

Yes, dosing nitrate will raise alkalinity when the nitrate is consumed.

The reaction taking place for consumption by organisms is:
equation 3 (below) shows the uptake of nitrate and CO2 into macroalgae to form typical organic molecules:

122 CO2 + 122 H2O + 16 NO3- --> C106H260O106N16 + 138 O2 + 16 HCO3-

It shows that one bicarbonate ion is produced for each nitrate ion consumed. So for each 50 ppm of nitrate, 2.3 dKH of alkalinity is added.

If 50 ppm of nitrate is consumed, the alkalinity will rise by 0.8 meq/L (2.3 dKH).

I'm sort of confused here. Where's the rest of the equation? Nitrate is a polyatomic ion attached to something else, nitric acid, potassium nitrate ect. It doesn't exist as just NO3. Does the sodium or potassium ion just react with the water and form a hydroxide compound? I'm sure if the nitrate source is calcium nitrate it might get even more interesting. Perhaps it might even form additional carbonate? There's no way to know here because this product lists its nitrogen source as "proprietary" which is pretty ridiculous. I'm kind of curious about this as I have thought about possibly using calcium nitrate for supplementing calcifying macroalgae.

 

[Lasse]

As an extra input to Randys comments - if you have denitrification in your system - the alkalinity will rise too

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Daftendire]

I would recommend avoiding any product like this all together that does not disclose the full NPK content as well as minors. This product contains nitrate in undisclosed forms, which means it may or may not raise potassium levels as well depending on the nitrogen source. Seachem's product discloses this as a 1-0-2 ratio, which indicates just how much you will be raising potassium levels as well.

Thanks for the tip. I've since stopped using the product and have increased the feedings a bit. The tank seems to be moving along well.

Not sure what is performing the denitrification in this system, but it seems to be working out

 

[ClownWrangler]

Thanks for the tip. I've since stopped using the product and have increased the feedings a bit. The tank seems to be moving along well.

Not sure what is performing the denitrification in this system, but it seems to be working out

That's good. The zooxanthellae in corals use up nitrates and to a smaller degree phosphates to photosynthesize and grow, so tanks with a lot of coral and little to no fish will have low nitrates without any form of denitrification. I only dose nitrates in macroalgae tanks, food is the best source of nitrogen in coral tanks, unless phosphates get too high, then slight nitrate dosing will balance things out.