Dosing vs. Calcium Reactor vs. WHAT DO YOU DO?!

[Zack33]

Hey guys,

So let me start by acknowledging the fact that I don't exactly have a single tank that is over 400 gallons, I have a 300 as my single biggest tank. But I do have two rather large systems. 1 is roughly 2500 gallons and the other is approximately 800 gallons. Plus a bunch of smaller (15-200 gallon systems) ones as well.

ANYWAYS on to my question:

Those of you with large systems, what do you do to manage your elemental needs? Do you use a calcium reactor in conjunction with dosing? Do you only dose?

Bulk elements seem to be cheap enough currently that a calcium reactor doesn't seem needed, but I'm wondering if it is best to use one.

Lets discuss what's best, personal experiences would be great to hear with both techniques as well!

 

[ndrwater]

On my 240 SPS dominated tank, I dosed for years.. but.. in thr long haul it got expensive. I was dosing over 400ml a day Ca and Alk.. since adding my Geo 818 CaRx, I don't mess with anything.. keeps everything rock solid.
If I were dealing with the volume you are dealing with, I wouldn't even consider dosing. To much money, to many varriables. Once dialed in a CaRx is as close to set it and forget it as you can be.. not many other things can be said about most pieces of Reefing equipment..
That all said, on my 120 LPS tank, I still dose via doser, but the requirements of that tank aren't 1/10th of the SPS tank..

 

[pecan2phat]

I'm only dosing for a 180g and it's cost is $34 every 40 days or $306 yearly.
Pretty sure you can get a nice CaRx rig at the rate you would need to dose for your water volume.

 

[Zack33]

On my 240 SPS dominated tank, I dosed for years.. but.. in thr long haul it got expensive. I was dosing over 400ml a day Ca and Alk.. since adding my Geo 818 CaRx, I don't mess with anything.. keeps everything rock solid.
If I were dealing with the volume you are dealing with, I wouldn't even consider dosing. To much money, to many varriables. Once dialed in a CaRx is as close to set it and forget it as you can be.. not many other things can be said about most pieces of Reefing equipment..
That all said, on my 120 LPS tank, I still dose via doser, but the requirements of that tank aren't 1/10th of the SPS tank..

Thanks! The systems are true mixed reefs, a bit of everything in there. When you say 400ml a day, how many grams of bulk material would you say it was....I guess I'm asking, what concentration of liquid solution were you making?
Thanks!

 

[ndrwater]

Thanks! The systems are true mixed reefs, a bit of everything in there. When you say 400ml a day, how many grams of bulk material would you say it was....I guess I'm asking, what concentration of liquid solution were you making?
Thanks!

I was actually using ESV BIonic. I was going g through the 8 gallon pack (4 gallons each Ca&Alk) once a month. ESV is one of the stronger off the shelf options. Doing whatever math it would take to make up 4 gallons at your desired strength would give you a good idea...

 

[Sallstrom]

We run calcium reactors on three large coral systems at work(public aquaria). In two of them we also dose Core7 now since the demand has gone up a lot.
Our normal routine is calcium reactor -> Triton ICP test - > adjust some parameters with Triton additives. So kind of the Triton method but with calcium reactor.

Have a look at my build thread if you would like to know more.

/ David

 

[Blue Tang Clan]

I did the math and I didn't find that dosing was that much more expensive than if you had a calcium reactor. BRS Alk and Calcium come pretty cheap, as is a doser -- compared to the higher initial cost of a Calcium Reactor.

6 Year Cost Comparison Between Calcium Reactor and 2-Part Dosing
$800 Calcium Reactor
$80 Tank
$110 Regulator
$40 Solenoid
$75 pH Probe
$70 Media/CO2 $70
$1,175 Up Front Cost
$350 5 years of $70 Annual Costs
$1,525 Total for 6 Years

2-Part
$300 DOS
$100 Calcium (35lbs) $100
$100 Soda Ash (35lbs) $100
$20 Storage Containers
$520 Up Front Cost
$1,000 5 years of $200 Annual Costs
$1,520 Total for 6 Years

 

[ca1ore]

I think cost comparisons are fine, but they miss the main point of the CaRx - namely that in dissolving dead coral ‘skeletons’ you replenish most mineral requirements in the correct ratios. My success with SPS coincided with my purchase of a CaRx, almost 20 years ago. A good quality reactor should last decades. Correlation perhaps; causation probably. I would suggest that a proper comparison between dosing and a reactor would need to account for all the other things that are dosed beyond the big three. THAT is much less cost favorable to dosing.

 

[chema]

I have a 120 g tank full with SPS (mostly acropora and Stylophora). I started dosing hand made two-part solutions, until the daily volume I had to dose become so large that it became unfeasible. Then I installed a calcium reactor. First a Korallin and then switched to the new Vertex. I relied on the calcium reactor for calcium and alkalinity for several years, but never could really dial any of them in a dependable way. In addition, my tank runs a pretty low pH, so I had to install a kalkwasser reactor to dose kalk over the night. In that way I could run the tank with a daily variation of 7,7-8.0 more or less.

When the new set of calcium and alkalinity solutions from Seachem came out (Reef Fusion 1 and Reef Fusion 2) I decided to give it a try to check whether they were as concentrated as claimed. I'm dosing 51 ml of RF 2 (alkalinity) and 45 ml of RF1 (calcium). Those volumes make dosing from containers reasonable and, besides that, my corals are happier than ever. Recently added a KH Director to monitor alkalinity on a daily basis and get it more stable.

All in all I'm happier with the new dosing system, and maintenance takes less time than having to check almost daily the calcium reactor effluent, the solenoid valve, and having to replenish from time to time the CO2 bottle and the calcium reactor body.

 

[scuzy]

You also forget the amount of time you waste mixing the additives. Replacement doser heads and tubing's. That adds up. If your size your calcium reactor right you touch it maybe once a year?

 

[Zack33]

I was actually using ESV BIonic. I was going g through the 8 gallon pack (4 gallons each Ca&Alk) once a month. ESV is one of the stronger off the shelf options. Doing whatever math it would take to make up 4 gallons at your desired strength would give you a good idea...

Good to know, thank you!

We run calcium reactors on three large coral systems at work(public aquaria). In two of them we also dose Core7 now since the demand has gone up a lot.
Our normal routine is calcium reactor -> Triton ICP test - > adjust some parameters with Triton additives. So kind of the Triton method but with calcium reactor.

Have a look at my build thread if you would like to know more.

/ David

I've actually read your thread a number of times. I use to work in the public aquarium industry as well, so sometimes seeing what you do and go through brings me back to that, I miss it....

Thanks for the thoughts!

I did the math and I didn't find that dosing was that much more expensive than if you had a calcium reactor. BRS Alk and Calcium come pretty cheap, as is a doser -- compared to the higher initial cost of a Calcium Reactor.

6 Year Cost Comparison Between Calcium Reactor and 2-Part Dosing
$800 Calcium Reactor
$80 Tank
$110 Regulator
$40 Solenoid
$75 pH Probe
$70 Media/CO2 $70
$1,175 Up Front Cost
$350 5 years of $70 Annual Costs
$1,525 Total for 6 Years

2-Part
$300 DOS
$100 Calcium (35lbs) $100
$100 Soda Ash (35lbs) $100
$20 Storage Containers
$520 Up Front Cost
$1,000 5 years of $200 Annual Costs
$1,520 Total for 6 Years

Thanks for the awesome cost break-down. Nice to see the numbers all in one place. It certainly puts things in perspective that way.

I think cost comparisons are fine, but they miss the main point of the CaRx - namely that in dissolving dead coral ‘skeletons’ you replenish all mineral requirements in the correct ratios. My success with SPS coincided with my purchase of a CaRx, almost 20 years ago. A good quality reactor should last decades. Correlation perhaps; causation probably. I would suggest that a proper comparison between dosing and a reactor would need to account for all the other things that are dosed beyond the big three. THAT is much less cost favorable to dosing.

You bring up a very good point. I actually hadn't considered how using a calcium reactor helps thing past the big three, but you are 100% correct in that fact. Something else to consider now.

I have a 120 g tank full with SPS (mostly acropora and Stylophora). I started dosing hand made two-part solutions, until the daily volume I had to dose become so large that it became unfeasible. Then I installed a calcium reactor. First a Korallin and then switched to the new Vertex. I relied on the calcium reactor for calcium and alkalinity for several years, but never could really dial any of them in a dependable way. In addition, my tank runs a pretty low pH, so I had to install a kalkwasser reactor to dose kalk over the night. In that way I could run the tank with a daily variation of 7,7-8.0 more or less.

When the new set of calcium and alkalinity solutions from Seachem came out (Reef Fusion 1 and Reef Fusion 2) I decided to give it a try to check whether they were as concentrated as claimed. I'm dosing 51 ml of RF 2 (alkalinity) and 45 ml of RF1 (calcium). Those volumes make dosing from containers reasonable and, besides that, my corals are happier than ever. Recently added a KH Director to monitor alkalinity on a daily basis and get it more stable.

All in all I'm happier with the new dosing system, and maintenance takes less time than having to check almost daily the calcium reactor effluent, the solenoid valve, and having to replenish from time to time the CO2 bottle and the calcium reactor body.

Mind if I ask why you switched reactors? Just a better model from the Vertex?

You also forget the amount of time you waste mixing the additives. Replacement doser heads and tubing's. That adds up. If your size your calcium reactor right you touch it maybe once a year?

Valid thought as well, it could end up in a time savings venture overtime at the least, maybe not immediately.



NEW THOUGHT!!! Does anyone have recommendations of the best brands? Is it good to oversize the reactor like we frequently do with protein skimmers, or do I need to aim for one that claims to do exactly the right volume?

THANKS!

 

[ca1ore]

The ‘capacity’ of a reactor is dependent upon the amount of media. I see nothing wrong with oversizing based on future needs and just filling it half full. You have to trial and error anyhow to find the right balance. My brand preference is the MTC ProCal because it’s lasted me almost 20 years and shows no sign of distress. MTC appear out of business though, so the Geo models look good to me.

 

[vetteguy53081]

three larger tanks and all under automatic dosing

 

[volcano1]

I have a 420 sps dominant tank, with 2 100 sumps. I dose kalkwasser , along with ro/do, to match my evaporation rate. I use a reefiller dual head pump, as I have to pump a long distance. I just use my water changes to make up my trace elements. It seems to keep my ph higher than a reactor, and is difficult to over dose. The cost is very low.
If you have decent evaporation,it should supply most of your alk and cal needs . The only issue I find , is the type of dosing pump I use is harder to find .

 

[Clutch]

My cost for caRX

370$ for Reef octopus duel reactor
40 $ for co2 regulator amazon works amazing
Since my apex controls it used the ph probe
That came with my apex
100$ 44 pounds of calcium media two lil fishies
130$ for co2 canister and co2 welding grade
27$ Aqua lifter vacuum pump (works
Amazing no complaints )
21$ magnesium media two little fishes
Total price
688$For calcium startup price

I would have also gone with aqua max calcium reactors they look sturdy and haven’t heard anything bad from them

 

[Scrubber_steve]

I think cost comparisons are fine, but they miss the main point of the CaRx - namely that in dissolving dead coral ‘skeletons’ you replenish all mineral requirements in the correct ratios. My success with SPS coincided with my purchase of a CaRx, almost 20 years ago. A good quality reactor should last decades. Correlation perhaps; causation probably. I would suggest that a proper comparison between dosing and a reactor would need to account for all the other things that are dosed beyond the big three. THAT is much less cost favorable to dosing.

Thats the thing with calc reactors, they add everything. No need for trace element dosing.
Still, I'd be interested in the results of an ICP test, in regards to the major - minor - trace element readings.
Have you had an ICP analysis done on your water?
What are those ratios of your salt mix (in the case you do water changes & use bag salt)?

 

[JMetaxas]

. MTC appear out of business though,............

You may be right, but I'm holding out hope. I've not received confirmation on this from anyone, but their phone # is disconnected and they don't answer emails. The website is still live.

I used their Calcium Reactor 20 years ago and still believe it's the best on the market.

 

[ca1ore]

Have to be in NJ next week - thinking about swinging by to see.

 

[ca1ore]

Thats the thing with calc reactors, they add everything. No need for trace element dosing.
Still, I'd be interested in the results of an ICP test, in regards to the major - minor - trace element readings.
Have you had an ICP analysis done on your water?
What are those ratios of your salt mix (in the case you do water changes & use bag salt)?

Just did a Triton test; all looked in line except phosphates are high. Li high also, but that’s a consequence of IO. I will post the results in my build thread.

 

[JMetaxas]

Have to be in NJ next week - thinking about swinging by to see.

yes, please do !