Dosing with Peroxide for Marine Velvet

Humblefish

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Also, those interested in utilizing H2O2 to manage (or even possibly eradicate) parasites in a DT should look into running an Oxydator. (Never thought I would see myself write that. :p)
 

HotRocks

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Also, those interested in utilizing H2O2 to manage (or even possibly eradicate) parasites in a DT should look into running an Oxydator. (Never thought I would see myself write that. :p)
@atoll needs to see this one ;). Maybe even @PaulB too :)
 

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@atoll needs to see this one ;). Maybe even @PaulB too :)
Paul is too busy trying to decide if he wants to join the 21st century and buy an actual wavemaker instead of another straight nozzle powerhead. :D ;)
 

bluprntguy

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Just for clarification...

The 75-150 mg/L dosage range is meant to only be used as a 30 minute bath treatment, as outlined here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hydrogen-peroxide.640232/

In most cases, you can safely dose 3% Hydrogen Peroxide in a reef environment every 12 hours at a dosage range of 1ml per 8-10 gallons. This is already being done to combat cyano, dinos and various nuisance algae. The problem with dosing in a reef environment is light, gas exchange and other factors will decompose H2O2. Which will possibly drop it below "therapeutic" (for parasite purposes) before you can safely administer the next dosage.
Also, those interested in utilizing H2O2 to manage (or even possibly eradicate) parasites in a DT should look into running an Oxydator. (Never thought I would see myself write that. :p)
So can we string all this together and say that dosing 1ml per 8-10 gallons every 12 hours may *possibly* be effective at controlling ich and velvet? I'm unsure if you are just saying that this is a safe max dose or whether you are also saying it may be a safe dose AND an effective dose...
 

Humblefish

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So can we string all this together and say that dosing 1ml per 8-10 gallons every 12 hours may *possibly* be effective at controlling ich and velvet? I'm unsure if you are just saying that this is a safe max dose or whether you are also saying it may be a safe dose AND an effective dose...
It may be effective at controlling (and possibly even eliminating) marine parasites & worms (external only). The science behind using H2O2 to do this is sound, but dosing it into an aquarium introduces too many X factors which are difficult to predict. I've seen it both work & fail in a DT environment. It is extremely important to dose 1ml per 8-10 gallons every 12 hours for at least 30 days. To have any chance of success at eradicating marine parasites/worms.
 

Humblefish

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What we need is an accurate H2O2 checker/meter @Hanna Instruments. The ones that are on the market today are too inaccurate + expensive.

If we can get that done, parasite game over, checkmate! :)
 

JasonK84

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It may be effective at controlling (and possibly even eliminating) marine parasites & worms (external only). The science behind using H2O2 to do this is sound, but dosing it into an aquarium introduces too many X factors which are difficult to predict. I've seen it both work & fail in a DT environment. It is extremely important to dose 1ml per 8-10 gallons every 12 hours for at least 30 days. To have any chance of success at eradicating marine parasites/worms.
I see many times that it is advised to FWD fish with ich and/or velvet for temporary relief. Would it be better to do a 30 minute H2O2 bath then go to QT for copper treatment? Seams that this would eliminate more of the parasites than a FWD and provide more time for the copper to start working.
 
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EmdeReef

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What we need is an accurate H2O2 checker/meter @Hanna Instruments. The ones that are on the market today are too inaccurate + expensive.

If we can get that done, parasite game over, checkmate! :)
Assuming corals can tolerate concentrations needed. I’m not convinced.

From the Canadian version of Perox-Aid, guess with some tweaks could be used to figure out dosing in a display tank, their testing was done on a fish farm:

91402EBB-2F56-4791-AF65-ACF6E728A3FE.jpeg
 

Humblefish

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I see many times that it is advised to FWD fish with ich and/or velvet for temporary relief. Would it be better to do a 30 minute H2O2 bath then go to QT for copper treatment? Seams that this would eliminate more of the parasites than a FWD and provide more time for the copper to start working.
The 30 minute H2O2 bath eliminates velvet, brook, uronema parasites, but does nothing for Ich because those trophonts are too deeply embedded (under the epithelium.) A 5 min FW dip, 45 min formalin bath or 90 min acriflavine bath helps as well; but IME the 75ppm H2O2 bath is the most effective at doing this. However, no matter what chemical you use for temporary relief I would still followup with copper or Chloroquine treatment in a QT. It's too soon to know if the more concentrated 150ppm H2O2 bath is capable of complete eradication (this is what I'm currently testing).

FWIW; the 1ml per 10 gallon sustained H2O2 treatment in a DT should be capable of killing Ich as well because in that scenario the free swimmers would be successfully targeted.
 

Humblefish

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Assuming corals can tolerate concentrations needed. I’m not convinced.

From the Canadian version of Perox-Aid, guess with some tweaks could be used to figure out dosing in a display tank, their testing was done on a fish farm:

91402EBB-2F56-4791-AF65-ACF6E728A3FE.jpeg
The best we can do is get more sources interested in doing further peer-reviewed studies on the subject. No matter what we prove/disprove, it will never be taken seriously until a bunch of people with PhDs sign off on it. ;)
 

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What concentration of H2O2 are you using for the 1ml per 8-10 gallon dose? Is the standard 3% found everywhere or a higher concentration?
The standard 3% found at Walmart, any drug store, etc.
 
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Antics

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FWIW; the 1ml per 10 gallon sustained H2O2 treatment in a DT should be capable of killing Ich as well because in that scenario the free swimmers would be successfully targeted.
I think this is really interesting to test out from perhaps a FOWLR perspective where it would be relatively easy to eliminate strong light and flow on the tank without worrying about coral issues. I wonder how difficult it would be to maintain this sustained level for the duration necessary to eliminate external parasites.
 

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The best we can do is get more sources interested in doing further peer-reviewed studies on the subject. No matter what we prove/disprove, it will never be taken seriously until a bunch of people with PhDs sign off on it. ;)
Agree but for now there’s a decent amount from our friends at big pharma through all the regulatory documents. The problem is finding enough time to carefully read it...
 

HotRocks

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FWIW; the 1ml per 10 gallon sustained H2O2 treatment in a DT should be capable of killing Ich as well because in that scenario the free swimmers would be successfully targeted.
Hmmmmm, I feel an experiment coming on, if I hear you correctly a 30 day treatment with H2O2 in QT could possibly be the way of the future.

The only missing component that most of us who prophylactically treat would be to add in some medicated food for 14 days...

Light component is easily removed as well on a QT.

Very interesting. We definitely need a Hanna checker for H2O2 @Hanna Instruments :)

For the casual reader this is not something that is tried and true yet. Just a discussion.
 

JasonK84

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I think this is really interesting to test out from perhaps a FOWLR perspective where it would be relatively easy to eliminate strong light and flow on the tank without worrying about coral issues. I wonder how difficult it would be to maintain this sustained level for the duration necessary to eliminate external parasites.
I run a FOWLR. Disease free from the start. Nice to have this info in case anything ever slipped through QT.

For clarification:

3% hydrogen peroxide dosed at 1 ml per 10 gallons every 12 hours for a minimum of 30 days.

Did I get all that correct?

And how many ml/gallon for a 30min bath?
 

HotRocks

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I run a FOWLR. Disease free from the start. Nice to have this info in case anything ever slipped through QT.

For clarification:

3% hydrogen peroxide dosed at 1 ml per 10 gallons every 12 hours for a minimum of 30 days.

Did I get all that correct?

And how many ml/gallon for a 30min bath?
This has the bath info:
 
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