Downgrade from NoPox to Vinegar: do I need to start from minimum dosing?

[potatocouch]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Do I need to start over from scratch if I am converting from NoPox to Vinegar?

I can't remember how much is my dosing (ml) for NoPox ... I think 6ml per day if my memory serves me well ... I set and now forgot about it LOL but I can see the dosing container is thinning and I don't have much $$$ to spend hence switching to Vinegar (from supermarketo).

 

[potatocouch]

PS: (By downgrade) I meant price and not dosing quantity ...

So if I understood the above chart correctly .. if I am to start over from zero with Vinegar and with my 50 Gallons volume ..

1. I would start with (total of) 1.6ml for the first 3 days (I'll probably dump the whole lot in 1 day).
2. Then (total of) 3.2ml for the remainder 4 days.
3. Add (additional) 4 ml (on top of the previous week total) each week ... i.e. week 2: 7.2ml , week 3: 11.2ml, week 4: 15.2ml ... <test each week> until No3 drops to close to zero ...

The moment it goes close to zero, then what? maintain that last dosage quantity or cut ? if cut, cut by what? half? quarter?

 

[FranklinDattein]

You don't have to.
If you do, the bacteria will "starve", die and cause a nutrient spike.
On the other hand, it is always prudent to keep a close eye for bacterial bloom during the first week.

 

[potatocouch]

@fsamir in that case mate, what would your suggestion be for my starting dose? say if am currently dosing 6 ml / day ..
do i just keep carrying on with that rate?
I would love that hahahaha .. all I need to do just dump the vinegar in the dosing container and don't even need to change any setting.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

IMO, with vinegar, the slow start is not really needed anyway.

But you'll likely need substantially more vinegar than NOPOX for the same effect, so starting at the current dosing seems fine.

 

[FranklinDattein]

@potatocouch I would start with the dosage from "Week 16" on that table, monitor No3 and adjust the dosage until No3 stabilises again. It is likely you will have to up the amount.

That table sits on the safe side and if I remember correctly, @Randy Holmes-Farley hasn't put it together when he wrote the article, the editors did. Is that right Randy?

I've only ramped up Vinegar at the very first time I used it. Whenever I setup a new tank I use the peek dosage, which in my case is around 40% higher the high dosage recommended by the table.

 

[potatocouch]

I have checked last night the setting on my NoPox dosing pump .. it's dosing 1x @ 2ml per day.

I have also checked my No3 .. it comes back to low reading ... definitely not zero but low range.

This guy @biom iterated that it takes 4 times Vinegar to match NoPox.

in terms of carbon content you will need almost 4 times more vinegar than NOPOX (3.85 times more to be precise)

@Randy Holmes-Farley concur to this (not the exact number but in general).

Yes, I agree it will take a lot more vinegar to match the NOPOX.

So if I am to take the above as a guideline, would this mean that I probably start with 4 x 2 ml ... so 8ml/day ?

This seems to agree with @fsamir suggestion to dose at 63.2ml/week which equates to 9ml/day ?

So 8 to 9 ml/day of Vinegar seems to be an okay conversion to current 2ml / day of NoPox?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

As folks mentioned, I didn't write the guideline chart above and I think it has issues.

That said, replacing it at 4x or something a bit less seems like a reasonable plan, yes.

 

[atlorange]

As folks mentioned, I didn't write the guideline chart above and I think it has issues.

That said, replacing it at 4x or something a bit less seems like a reasonable plan, yes.

Hi Randy,

I love reading your chemistry posts.
I have seen several where you disagree with the vinegar dosing schedule above. Do you have a schedule that you have authored? Any rule of thumb you can provide?

I am going to start dosing vinegar in my 110 display/125 gallon total volume. Have had good results in other tanks, this is a newish (less than 6 months) build.

TIA.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks.

I don't really have any sort of schedule. I think that as long as you do not overdo it (which can mean either excessively low nitrate or haziness in the water due to bacteria), the dose really doesn't matter that much.

I say that in part because I experimented with very different doses of vinegar in my system (from 75 to 400+ mL per day) and never really saw much difference except at the very high end (haziness and some organism browning/closing). I never measured nitrate, and determined doses by trial and error.

I'm also not sure that slow starting is needed. I really don't see the benefit, even theoretically.

I know this isn't much guidance, but I think it is more flexible than many people assume.

What might I do in your system? That depends. Is nitrate elevated now?

 

[redfishbluefish]

Have you considered a DIY version of NOPOX. I've had great success with this....and supposedly the same approximate formula as the original.... 500 mls vinegar (5%), 375 mls vodka (80 proof), and 125 mls RO/DI.

 

[penguin_free]

I thought I was playing it fast and loose starting my 56 gallon off at 1/4 cup vinegar per day when I began carbon dosing. My NO3 was elevated at ~40ppm despite weekly water changes.
I continued the frequent water changes in case I might be building up a bacterial population dense enough to cause an O2 issue. But never saw any sign of distress. I was running a hob skimmer to help with oxygenation as well as export.
That was the point when I started to see my xenia frag become a colony needing pruning, seemingly over night.

 

[sricorals]

Thanks.

Pardon me, if I'm interrupting. I just wanted to ask a question.
My new 150 gal tank was recently cycled, Amo is 0, Nitrite is 0, but Nitrate is 80. I really don't want to do a 95% water change. What are my options of bring down the Nitrate? If dosing Vinegar and/or Vodka how much and how often would be really helpful. Thank you for your time.