Dr. Tim's Fishless Cycle Isssuues

[Brock_Reed]

Hello I'm having some issues with the cycling method for my saltwater tank. I have a 40 gallon breeder tank with live sand and life rock with a hang on filter. It's heated to about 80 degrees and the salinity is about 1.024. Before I added the ammonia drops on day 1, I had .5 Ammonia and 0 nitrites. Unfortunately I didn't see until later not to add ammonia until mine from the live sand was down to 0. I added the dosage of one and only bacteria along with 4 drops per gallon of ammonia. Day 2 I had 2 ammonia and .25 nitrites. Day three I didn't add more ammonia because I was reading 2 ammonia again and .25 nitrites. Day 4, 2 ammonia and 2 nitrites. Day 5 same thing. It seems I'm at a stand still. Do I continue to wait it out or do I go with a water change? If so how much water do I change? I used a 60 gallon dosage of one and only as well and only added ammonia drops on day 1 as well. PH has been about 8 every day. Also want to add that the nitrate reading was 20ppm on day 5 if that matters at all. Sorry, saltwater newbie here!

 

[brandon429]

all you do is this

add in one finely ground up pinch of fish food, ground into powder in your palm

wait eight more days, change your water to some degree and it's cycled and the test kits you're using can't be used to verify it, since those test kits are found to misread in hundreds of thousands of cycling posts. you can use calculated # of days underwater for the system vs testing to be certain of a closed cycle date. the fish food adds carbon per Dr. Reef's study thread, and eight more days equates you to the ammonia line # of days to control from any cycling chart. you'll be past ten days actually by waiting eight more days after the feed, you'll be done easily by then and can reef if you have normal degree of rocks stewing in the tank this whole time.

 

[brandon429]

if you had a seneye meter the chances are 99.9% you are done cycling right now but since you don't and we're in no hurry, carbon + eight more days will substitute in just fine.

 

[Brock_Reed]

all you do is this

add in one finely ground up pinch of fish food, ground into powder in your palm

wait eight more days, change your water to some degree and it's cycled and the test kits you're using can't be used to verify it, since those test kits are found to misread in hundreds of thousands of cycling posts. you can use calculated # of days underwater for the system vs testing to be certain of a closed cycle date. the fish food adds carbon per Dr. Reef's study thread, and eight more days equates you to the ammonia line # of days to control from any cycling chart. you'll be past ten days actually by waiting eight more days after the feed, you'll be done easily by then and can reef if you have normal degree of rocks stewing in the tank this whole time.

I appreciate it thank you. I've been getting a lot of mixed things to do. Dr. Tim Aquatics messaged me back and told me to just wait a few days for it to drop and then continue to add ammonia as if it were day 3 if it falls to 1ppm. I'm just nervous if it really does have ammonia in it that I will kill the fish when I decide to add them.

 

[brandon429]

I would cease the ammonia and switch to the fish food, you've input good ammonia already.

those replies from dr tims are just employees working chats, like call center folks who do troubleshoots off logic flow charts

they don't intricately do cycle work like forum geeks do or they wouldn't be having you re input ammonia over and over/time for carbon cheat and a week's time = from the geeks lol

 

[CocoReef]

I appreciate it thank you. I've been getting a lot of mixed things to do. Dr. Tim Aquatics messaged me back and told me to just wait a few days for it to drop and then continue to add ammonia as if it were day 3 if it falls to 1ppm. I'm just nervous if it really does have ammonia in it that I will kill the fish when I decide to add them.

I've used Tims one and only to start all my tanks and I dont add fish until the tank can process 1 ppm ammonia all the way to nitrate within 24 hours.

As for keeping the bacteria fed I agree with brandon on ghost feeding, adding too much ammonia can cause high nitrates to stall your cycle once it's all processed

 

[Brock_Reed]

I would cease the ammonia and switch to the fish food, you've input good ammonia already.

those replies from dr tims are just employees working chats, like call center folks who do troubleshoots off logic flow charts

they don't intricately do cycle work like forum geeks do or they wouldn't be having you re input ammonia over and over/time for carbon cheat and a week's time = from the geeks lol

Alright I will do what you recommend! So do I need to measure anything or just add the pinch of crushed up fish food to the tank, wait 8 days, then do a water change (20-25%?)? I assume it doesn't matter what food? I just have tropical flakes that I feed for my current freshwater fish. After the eight days are up, it's safe to add fish? How will I know that it is safe to add fish if my tests are saying there is ammonia and nitrite?

 

[brandon429]

the advice comes from 40+page threads on testless reef tank cycling where we only use a total of ten days to get tanks ready, and the fish always live, and anyone with digital ammonia testing is welcomed to verify it

these non digital test kits mislead people so often we simply quit using them in my cycling threads.

*the ten days came from a standard cycling chart, that's how long ammonia takes to control in the cycling arrangements we all copy off one another and there are no charts where it's more than ten days for a reason. Only non digital ammonia testing among reefers makes it seem to take longer than ten days.

if someone was using an uncommon cycling approach I can see how that would take more than ten days

*change all your water for new if it's a nano tank, that's less algae fuel.

here's the thread:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

ten days wait got everyone done there without fail. we have people do 100% changes where possible in case they input way more ammonia than they know or are relaying, as worst case scenarios. the final big water change aligns all tanks equally and doesn't peel off the cycling bac attached to rocks given this long of a ramp up time.

the reason we prefer # of days to open-ended wait cycling is because you can begin applying fish disease preps on the tank if you know the clear cycle close dates. using old methods, people worry over ammonia for weeks on end and exclude any fish disease preps, worn out by the long wait slog that is old cycling science.

 

[brandon429]

post a pic of your tank if you can, we want to see how much rock was used

 

[Brock_Reed]

post a pic of your tank if you can, we want to see how much rock was used

 

[Brock_Reed]

I think I started the cycle 1-2 days after I put the water in the tank. So a 100% water cycle after the 8 days? Then I should be good to add the fish that day? I’m just starting with 2 clowns and then slowly adding others once I get the hang of it.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed yes. When you do the water change at the end of the wait time add the fish and a capful of the leftover dr Tims cycling bac and that's good it'll be fine.

No more ammonia needed and the daily fish feeding keeps all the bacteria fed permanently.

 

[Brock_Reed]

Agreed yes. When you do the water change at the end of the wait time add the fish and a capful of the leftover dr Tims cycling bac and that's good it'll be fine.

I meant a 100% water change. I don't have any of the Dr. Tim's one and only due to his instructions saying to add all of it. Should I be getting more now? Also would doing a 100% water change create a blossom bloom?

 

[brandon429]

Watch out for acclimation stress in your fish, cycles get blamed for fish losses caused by acclimation stress. Most pet stores hold fish at .016 and if you dump them into .025 water that's harmful

It's also harmful to bag float acclimate, we have an acclimation thread example on page one of that big thread.

 

[brandon429]

No it's OK not to buy more i thought you had some left it was just to use it up


Just leave that part out no need to buy more.

 

[brandon429]

Only buy fish that are held in reef water. Take your salinity tester to the store and verify where they hold fish don't buy from them if it's not close to reef salinity, low salinity is a trick pet stores use to sell diseased fish to people.

Don't trust their relay of salinity take your own meter and be sure.

 

[Brock_Reed]

Only buy fish that are held in reef water. Take your salinity tester to the store and verify where they hold fish don't buy from them if it's not close to reef salinity, low salinity is a trick pet stores use to sell diseased fish to people.

Don't trust their relay of salinity take your own meter and be sure.

Thanks for all the help. I live in the sticks and unfortunately can only get the fish from Petco.

 

[brandon429]

Hey can you take your meter still/ in a different thread I'm collecting salinity level averages people see from pet stores we'd still like to know what they hold clowns at

 

[Brock_Reed]

Hey can you take your meter still/ in a different thread I'm collecting salinity level averages people see from pet stores we'd still like to know what they hold clowns at

sure. I'll bring mine there and measure it and let you know. In the mean time, should I be still measuring with my API test kits or is it not really a bother to do that anymore since they probably aren't accurate anyways?

 

[brandon429]

opinions range on that but I would not use them. we handled ammonia and nitrite off timing alone, nitrate is an ongoing measure but api just isn't accurate for nitrate compared to other kits, in comparison threads.