Dragon Soul vs Hellfire vs Jester vs NY Knicks

AquaOps1223

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Good Evening R2R,

So I want to start a convo not a fight (lol) about the differences between the following:

  • dragon soul
  • hellfire
  • jester
  • ny knicks
  • Og knicks
  • jester cap
  • Ultra Gold

I know there are others that vendors name that are similar.
 

pandaparties

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Not sure this is the right area to discuss. Though I will say out of all the corals, torch naming has gotten by far the most out of control and holds the least weight. The number of "holy grails" I see being advertised are ridiculous and look nothing like each other, same with "god's" and "masters". If you are concerned with name then pick a shop that can show a lineage and stick with them otherwise it's all advertising IMO
 
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AquaOps1223

AquaOps1223

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Not sure this is the right area to discuss. Though I will say out of all the corals, torch naming has gotten by far the most out of control and holds the least weight. The number of "holy grails" I see being advertised are ridiculous and look nothing like each other, same with "god's" and "masters". If you are concerned with name then pick a shop that can show a lineage and stick with them otherwise it's all advertising IMO
Hi, just trying to get a proper description for customers but more facts then opinions. Is there a different forum you recommend? As, I new here in R2R and trying to learn the interface.

Thanks,
 

Cell

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Not sure this is the right area to discuss. Though I will say out of all the corals, torch naming has gotten by far the most out of control and holds the least weight. The number of "holy grails" I see being advertised are ridiculous and look nothing like each other, same with "god's" and "masters". If you are concerned with name then pick a shop that can show a lineage and stick with them otherwise it's all advertising IMO
What do you mean not the right area to discuss? Sponsor post on it's own forum...
 
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AquaOps1223

AquaOps1223

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What do you mean not the right area to discuss? Sponsor post on it's own forum...
For example, should this be posted here, please see attached.
 

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MERKEY

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@ADAM Will definitely add more but this is how I've come to see how torches are named and corolates with the OP's torches.

Please keep in mind each importer and vendor deal on their own terms and use names that they choose. Things change as shipments come in as well, so take this with a grain of salt.

This is simply my loose interpretation of what happens to give an idea to the normal hobbiest.

It first starts with vendors buying all of these torches stated in the OP as DIFFERENT levels of indo golds and slap all those names the OP listed on them To keep them separate and charge more.

There are levels of "indo gold" vendors buy and each level will gather a name that some vendor somewhere put a silly name out on it so that they didn't just call it a "ultra ultra rare indo gold". It's got to be catchy ;)

Gold
Rare
Ultra
Ultra rare
Super Ultra rare

These are just examples but each level is used to distinguish what the cost is to the vendor pays. Ultra rares are more expensive than rares for the vendor to buy. Small vendors that buy coral may get 10 really nice ones and 1 or 2 being a super Ultra rare out of 1000 corals. It's expensive for them to get these few gems as they really aren't paying for the other 800 corals. They only save the ones worth selling. It's sad in some cases:(

A proper old school "knicks" torch used to be an Super Ultra rare or Ultra rare indo gold. Now it's imported as a normal indo gold as there are so many being imported.

There are variations being bought by vendors under those categories as super ultra rare indo gold that are now called rapunzels or even the dragon tammer ect...

Holy Grails are bought as "blue tips" those are getting flooded at the moment as well.

With indo open to wild in some areas there are a ton of crazy corals coming in and the vendors have to keep making names so we as the hobbiest don't get board and buy something else.

OK OK OK so back to the original question and what's the difference between all of the torches listed ...

Color of tips, color of mouth and amount of gold on and cascading on tenticles all make the difference in what these torches are called.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND TORCHES CHANGE THEIR COLOR IN YOUR TANK

Because of the difference in light spectrum, PAR, and nutrients there is a high high chance the colors change.

Torches are actually on the back burner right now and goni's are taking off.

I hope this helps a little ;Bored ;Photogenic
 
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ADAM

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@MERKEY and @Cell :cool::cool::cool:

There are some differences in each strain that may only be apparent in optimal conditions (natural sea water parameters), however you then have to take lighting into consideration. At 200-250 PAR a whiter, 12-15k spectrum usually will enhance the greens and purples where as deeper blue 20K+ will enhance more of the golds and yellow; this is a rule of thumb because nutrients (NO3 and PO4) and trace elements availability will alter colors just as much. Get tricky really fast!

Names are always going to be a part of the hobby so maybe try thinking of them a little differently. If I bought a torch from ABC corals and you wanted to inquire about buying one, it’s much easier to ask if they more of the Dragon Soul torch, versus trying to describe it and being sure it’s the same one since there is so many that are fairly similar. If it’s a smaller vendor it could be the only gold torches they had but nowadays most vendors have several types of gold torches available at any given time.

On my torch collection journey I’ve talked with many new and old school euphyllia gurus and there’s generally a basic concept of the base names.

•Holy Grail- Blue or Purple Tips ( Most include pink tip as well) green body with the green color also in some portion of the tentacles be it 10% or 70% ((hence the different names for each HG coloration strain)), the remaining area of tentacle would be yellow.
•Master- the yellow/green body and tentacle coloration of a holy grail with white or green tips. ((*Master refers to a coloration, not one particular strain))
•Ultra Gold- Generally green body with 50% or more of the tentacle being a gold color.
•Indo Gold “Knicks, Jester, Black Panther, Dragon Soul, 21Tails, Hellfire, Dragon Fire, etc all have there differences, albeit minor in some cases, there is a difference.

If you are considering buying one from someone and you’re not sure if you may have that strain ask for picture with other corals in the frame to find a reference color. A full tank shot is a good way to see this difference. You can find another coral that you may have already and compare the coloration of yours and theirs. Also it’s pretty easy to see if a photo is being heavily edited when there’s a wider angle shot because the rocks, fish, sand, etc won’t look very natural.

•*•*•*• My rule is that if anything feels weird about a photo or the particular situation, I’m walking away and not taking a risk on wasting money.

*••**••*I collect torches but don’t consider myself a “guru”, nonetheless Im always happy to help with euphyllia issues or give my opinion if anyone has a question about a euphyllia situation, condition, issue, or just want to show off your newest piece; hit me up!
If I can’t give you a clear answer, I will point you to the best person I know of to ask. PM here or Instagram @AK_Reefs

In my pictures you can see the subtle, and major, differences in several strains that are in close proximity of each other. Even though they may look almost identical if someone had them for sale at the same time they would want to call them something different to help themselves differentiate between them for selling purposes. The second pic is 3 HG and 1 master, even though they’re pretty similar when looking at individual photos once side by side it’s pretty easy to see the differences (this pic isn’t the greatest but if you’re looking for excellent examples with side by side comparisons hit me up on Instagram and I’ll tell you a few profiles you were you can

FD2B009F-2C32-47E9-BE1F-35F33C664133.jpeg
182BDEF4-3350-41C7-AA5F-04ECDF3B2AAA.png
 
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AquaOps1223

AquaOps1223

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@ADAM Will definitely add more but this is how I've come to see how torches are named and corolates with the OP's torches.

Please keep in mind each importer and vendor deal on their own terms and use names that they choose. Things change as shipments come in as well, so take this with a grain of salt.

This is simply my loose interpretation of what happens to give an idea to the normal hobbiest.

It first starts with vendors buying all of these torches stated in the OP as DIFFERENT levels of indo golds and slap all those names the OP listed on them To keep them separate and charge more.

There are levels of "indo gold" vendors buy and each level will gather a name that some vendor somewhere put a silly name out on it so that they didn't just call it a "ultra ultra rare indo gold". It's got to be catchy ;)

Gold
Rare
Ultra
Ultra rare
Super Ultra rare

These are just examples but each level is used to distinguish what the cost is to the vendor pays. Ultra rares are more expensive than rares for the vendor to buy. Small vendors that buy coral may get 10 really nice ones and 1 or 2 being a super Ultra rare out of 1000 corals. It's expensive for them to get these few gems as they really aren't paying for the other 800 corals. They only save the ones worth selling. It's sad in some cases:(

A proper old school "knicks" torch used to be an Super Ultra rare or Ultra rare indo gold. Now it's imported as a normal indo gold as there are so many being imported.

There are variations being bought by vendors under those categories as super ultra rare indo gold that are now called rapunzels or even the dragon tammer ect...

Holy Grails are bought as "blue tips" those are getting flooded at the moment as well.

With indo open to wild in some areas there are a ton of crazy corals coming in and the vendors have to keep making names so we as the hobbiest don't get board and buy something else.

OK OK OK so back to the original question and what's the difference between all of the torches listed ...

Color of tips, color of mouth and amount of gold on and cascading on tenticles all make the difference in what these torches are called.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND TORCHES CHANGE THEIR COLOR IN YOUR TANK

Because of the difference in light spectrum, PAR, and nutrients there is a high high chance the colors change.

Torches are actually on the back burner right now and goni's are taking off.

I hope this helps a little ;Bored ;Photogenic
Thank you sir for the time and info, this is a very educational.
 

A2dahlberg

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@ADAM Will definitely add more but this is how I've come to see how torches are named and corolates with the OP's torches.

Please keep in mind each importer and vendor deal on their own terms and use names that they choose. Things change as shipments come in as well, so take this with a grain of salt.

This is simply my loose interpretation of what happens to give an idea to the normal hobbiest.

It first starts with vendors buying all of these torches stated in the OP as DIFFERENT levels of indo golds and slap all those names the OP listed on them To keep them separate and charge more.

There are levels of "indo gold" vendors buy and each level will gather a name that some vendor somewhere put a silly name out on it so that they didn't just call it a "ultra ultra rare indo gold". It's got to be catchy ;)

Gold
Rare
Ultra
Ultra rare
Super Ultra rare

These are just examples but each level is used to distinguish what the cost is to the vendor pays. Ultra rares are more expensive than rares for the vendor to buy. Small vendors that buy coral may get 10 really nice ones and 1 or 2 being a super Ultra rare out of 1000 corals. It's expensive for them to get these few gems as they really aren't paying for the other 800 corals. They only save the ones worth selling. It's sad in some cases:(

A proper old school "knicks" torch used to be an Super Ultra rare or Ultra rare indo gold. Now it's imported as a normal indo gold as there are so many being imported.

There are variations being bought by vendors under those categories as super ultra rare indo gold that are now called rapunzels or even the dragon tammer ect...

Holy Grails are bought as "blue tips" those are getting flooded at the moment as well.

With indo open to wild in some areas there are a ton of crazy corals coming in and the vendors have to keep making names so we as the hobbiest don't get board and buy something else.

OK OK OK so back to the original question and what's the difference between all of the torches listed ...

Color of tips, color of mouth and amount of gold on and cascading on tenticles all make the difference in what these torches are called.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND TORCHES CHANGE THEIR COLOR IN YOUR TANK

Because of the difference in light spectrum, PAR, and nutrients there is a high high chance the colors change.

Torches are actually on the back burner right now and goni's are taking off.

I hope this helps a little ;Bored ;Photogenic
So with that last part being said, this is why we can't make a registry like they do with plants (IE Fuchsias). Are Zoa's the same way?
 

MERKEY

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I think zoas hold their patterns and colors a little better or longer before morphing under different tank conditions.
Which then would gain value for the vendor to use a different name.

20210929_162620.jpg
 
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