Early Stage Dinoflagellates

[Adamantium]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellate-identification-guide.671466/

Thanks. That’s what I used to ID them as Amphidinium. Now I’m just trying to figure out a plan of attack.

 

[saltyhog]

I’m just now realizing that I don’t know if it’s large cell, or small cell, amphidinium, though... I have no size reference.

Edit: Looking at videos of both, I’m fairly certain this is large cell amphidinium.

Distinguishing those two really isn't a big deal. Treatment for both is the same. I would still love to see a video of the microscopic views.

Your UV will do nothing for amphidinium (either type). Unfortunately amphidinium is not a quick or easy fix. Keep nutrients elevated (NO3 5-10 and PO4 0.06-0.12). Start dosing silicates (Sponge Excel or water glass) to try to obtain a competing diatom bloom. Add biodiversity in any other way you can......dose phyto, add pods, add a new piece of live rock from an established tank, etc.

 

[Adamantium]

Distinguishing those two really isn't a big deal. Treatment for both is the same. I would still love to see a video of the microscopic views.

Your UV will do nothing for amphidinium (either type). Unfortunately amphidinium is not a quick or easy fix. Keep nutrients elevated (NO3 5-10 and PO4 0.06-0.12). Start dosing silicates (Sponge Excel or water glass) to try to obtain a competing diatom bloom. Add biodiversity in any other way you can......dose phyto, add pods, add a new piece of live rock from an established tank, etc.

Thank you so much. I’ll try to get a video, but no promises. It’s a junky microscope, so it was hard enough to look through with my eye.

I’m about to order some Sponge Excel. Maybe some neonitro, too. I have phyto feast, so I’ll keep dosing that, as well as microbacter 7.

Is hydrogen peroxide of any value here? Also, do you think I should actually turn off the UV for now to promote biodiversity?

 

[saltyhog]

Thank you so much. I’ll try to get a video, but no promises. It’s a junky microscope, so it was hard enough to look through with my eye.

I’m about to order some Sponge Excel. Maybe some neonitro, too. I have phyto feast, so I’ll keep dosing that, as well as microbacter 7.

Is hydrogen peroxide of any value here? Also, do you think I should actually turn off the UV for now to promote biodiversity?

Without knowing for sure the strain, the UV question is hard to answer. I would just turn it off for a couple of hours after dosing phyto or bacteria. H2O2 has been helpful in some cases in others not ....unfortunately we don't yet understand why.

 

[attiland]

Thank you so much. I’ll try to get a video, but no promises. It’s a junky microscope, so it was hard enough to look through with my eye.

I’m about to order some Sponge Excel. Maybe some neonitro, too. I have phyto feast, so I’ll keep dosing that, as well as microbacter 7.

Is hydrogen peroxide of any value here? Also, do you think I should actually turn off the UV for now to promote biodiversity?

There is a Amphidinium tread worth working yourself trough.

Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

This thread is a spin-off from the @mcarroll very successful Dino thread The purpose is to discuss methods for removal and fighting against a particular strain of dinoflagellate - Large Cell Amphidinium. It seems to make up about a third of the cases of dinos. The reason this strain gets its...

www.reef2reef.com

Most people say peroxide had no or little effect. I haven’t tried myself.

I would keep that UV running will not hurt and small cell goes sometimes to water column.
Sponge Excell worked for me to reduce dinos to almost 0.

Here are 2 guys can give you expert advice. @ScottB @taricha

 

[Adamantium]

There is a Amphidinium tread worth working yourself trough.

Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

This thread is a spin-off from the @mcarroll very successful Dino thread The purpose is to discuss methods for removal and fighting against a particular strain of dinoflagellate - Large Cell Amphidinium. It seems to make up about a third of the cases of dinos. The reason this strain gets its...

www.reef2reef.com

Most people say peroxide had no or little effect. I haven’t tried myself.

I would keep that UV running will not hurt and small cell goes sometimes to water column.
Sponge Excell worked for me to reduce dinos to almost 0.

Here are 2 guys can give you expert advice. @ScottB @taricha

I’ve been working my way through that thread, thanks! Sounds like silicates, phyto, Microbacter, and detectable nutrients, are going to be my solution. Hopefully...

Thank you!

 

[Adamantium]

There is a Amphidinium tread worth working yourself trough.

Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

This thread is a spin-off from the @mcarroll very successful Dino thread The purpose is to discuss methods for removal and fighting against a particular strain of dinoflagellate - Large Cell Amphidinium. It seems to make up about a third of the cases of dinos. The reason this strain gets its...

www.reef2reef.com

Most people say peroxide had no or little effect. I haven’t tried myself.

I would keep that UV running will not hurt and small cell goes sometimes to water column.
Sponge Excell worked for me to reduce dinos to almost 0.

Here are 2 guys can give you expert advice. @ScottB @taricha

Thank you so much!

Hey, what about raising the temp? Have you heard any good things about trying that? Say, to 82 or 83?

 

[ScottB]

Thank you so much!

Hey, what about raising the temp? Have you heard any good things about trying that? Say, to 82 or 83?

So far, raising temp is hit/miss. No effectiveness pattern confirmed.

We hobbyists tend to throw the kitchen sink at dinos so it is difficult to assign efficacy on the components. Your post #36 feels like the consensus protocol to run with. Apply, measure, and report your results in the amphid thread best you can. This species requires a bit of patience. Don't lose that.

 

[Adamantium]

So far, raising temp is hit/miss. No effectiveness pattern confirmed.

We hobbyists tend to throw the kitchen sink at dinos so it is difficult to assign efficacy on the components. Your post #36 feels like the consensus protocol to run with. Apply, measure, and report your results in the amphid thread best you can. This species requires a bit of patience. Don't lose that.

Got it. Appreciate it.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

.

 

[Adamantium]

A worker at my LFS suggested a 3 day black out. Anyone think this is a good/bad idea? And will I need to find a way to cover the whole tank, not just turn out the lights?

 

[DrMMI]

A worker at my LFS suggested a 3 day black out. Anyone think this is a good/bad idea? And will I need to find a way to cover the whole tank, not just turn out the lights?

I've always had to best success with my dino treatments when I couple it with a 3 day blackout. Dr. Tims dino treatment actually says to start with one. I developed dinos in one of my tanks about a month ago. I started with a 3 day blackout, completely covering the tank with garbage black bags, and started elegant corals dino treatment, turned off the white lights, and kept my nutrients above 0. I'm on day 5 and I've been dino free since the bags came off.

 

[Adamantium]

I've always had to best success with my dino treatments when I couple it with a 3 day blackout. Dr. Tims dino treatment actually says to start with one. I developed dinos in one of my tanks about a month ago. I started with a 3 day blackout, completely covering the tank with garbage black bags, and started elegant corals dino treatment, turned off the white lights, and kept my nutrients above 0. I'm on day 5 and I've been dino free since the bags came off.

Appreciate it. Guess I’ll give it a shot. I just hope my nem doesn’t move... again...

Do you cover the top, too? If so, doesn’t condensation become an issue?

 

[DrMMI]

Appreciate it. Guess I’ll give it a shot. I just hope my nem doesn’t move... again...

Do you cover the top, too? If so, doesn’t condensation become an issue?

Usually my anemones stay put. Every now and then, one will take a walk. But it's usually up the glass trying to reach some light, so it's easy to put it back. I have a mesh top so I just lay the bags right on top of that. Just keep an eye on your alk. You'll have less consumption while the coral sleep.

 

[Adamantium]

Usually my anemones stay put. Every now and then, one will take a walk. But it's usually up the glass trying to reach some light, so it's easy to put it back. I have a mesh top so I just lay the bags right on top of that. Just keep an eye on your alk. You'll have less consumption while the coral sleep.

Thanks! Good point about the Alk.

 

[attiland]

A worker at my LFS suggested a 3 day black out. Anyone think this is a good/bad idea? And will I need to find a way to cover the whole tank, not just turn out the lights?

With Amphidinium it doesn’t work as they don’t go to the water column where you could catch them with UV or bacteria. At least this is what I saw in the forums.

I have left samples for a week on my desk. The temperature obviously dropped to 20C and it was in a box so almost fully in dark. Out of interest I have looked it under microscope again and the were still having a party.

 

[Adamantium]

With Amphidinium it doesn’t work as they don’t go to the water column where you could catch them with UV or bacteria. At least this is what I saw in the forums.

I have left samples for a week on my desk. The temperature obviously dropped to 20C and it was in a box so almost fully in dark. Out of interest I have looked it under microscope again and the were still having a party.

Well that’s deeply disappointing, but also very surprising. Why is it the case, then, that they fade away overnight, and come back as the lights ramp up?

 

[ScottB]

Well that’s deeply disappointing, but also very surprising. Why is it the case, then, that they fade away overnight, and come back as the lights ramp up?

The speculation is they burrow in the sand at night as a defensive move. Long blackouts typically fail as the can go to cyst phase and just return when the lights come back. Another brilliant defense.

The general treatment theme against these is to feed competitors, namely diatoms, by dosing SpongeExcel (silicates). Some also supplement with MB7 and phyto. Prepare yourself to a long slog.

 

[Adamantium]

The speculation is they burrow in the sand at night as a defensive move. Long blackouts typically fail as the can go to cyst phase and just return when the lights come back. Another brilliant defense.

The general treatment theme against these is to feed competitors, namely diatoms, by dosing SpongeExcel (silicates). Some also supplement with MB7 and phyto. Prepare yourself to a long slog.

Thanks. I’m ready for the battle lol

I actually have SpongExcel, but I tested my silicates and they’re right at 2 without it, so I’m hesitant to dose. I’ve also been adding MB7 and PhytoFeast for about a week and a half. They don’t seem to be getting especially worse, but they definitely look pretty bad around 2-4PM when the lights have been on a while.

Interesting to know that they burrow. Clever jerks...

 

[maugustine]

Can some post a picture of what y’all are talking about? I may be having a similar issue