EMERGENCY Harptail blenny in QT laying on ground

[MnFish1]

Are those maybe different forms of the medication? I'm using the powder form which seems to match the instructions from the humblefish link. That says to use 1-2 scoops per 10 gallons. My container says to use 1 scoop per 10 gallons. I used 2 total scoops. So even if I am lower than the 20 gallons that I am calculating on, that is almost half the dosage of the website. So I hope that I am nowhere close to toxic levels.

I don't know - both are instructions for dosing but I feel like this is probably a combo of the stress of the two meds together combined with the trauma from bad shipping.

Yes - I don't know - the one link - seems 'odd' in that they are talking about scoops and vials. The one from the Humblefish quote seems to make more sense to me.

I didn't think you were saying I did anything wrong. And I really appreciate your efforts and time I understand the sensitive nature of this hobby. I was just unnecessarily vocalizing some discouragement on my part.

I will look more into that protocol once I get past this issue.

My instinct says to do a water change and pre-dose the new water as normal with copper to keep from dropping below my prophylactic level.

Thats what I would do. Hope this helps. I think what you said is probably true - that it's a combination of various things. @Jay Hemdal?

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Yes - I don't know - the one link - seems 'odd' in that they are talking about scoops and vials. The one from the Humblefish quote seems to make more sense to me.

Thats what I would do. Hope this helps. I think what you said is probably true - that it's a combination of various things. @Jay Hemdal?

I just declared the harptail blenny dead and pulled him out of the tank. I have a novice eye, but the distended abdomen is the only thing that looks out of order.

 

[MnFish1]

I just declared the harptail blenny dead and pulled him out of the tank. I have a novice eye, but the distended abdomen is the only thing that looks out of order.

One has to wonder about an internal infection or a collection injury. Sorry about your fish - and sorry about the back and forth with various recommendations. !! Whether you use Humblefishes protocol your own or the one posted here - its important to be consistent IMHO, Otherwise you will get people on all sides chiming in based on their experience. Humblefish certainly has a lot of experience.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry to hear - I was at work all day, so I haven't been able to respond to any posts since earlier this morning.

After-the-fact, it is difficult to say what happened. As stated, I prefer not to use two medications that overlap in their range (in this case, metro and copper). Each by itself can cause stress, and both together just causes more stress. Since they are both active against protozoans, there is no reason to run them together.

While I don't think it was an issue in this case, ramping up coppersafe or copper power over 10 days is ill advised. As long as you are measuring it accurately, getting to a full dose in 24 hours is fine. Taking longer can allow diseases to take a firm foothold, as anything below 2.0 is not beneficial. This idea stemmed from the old days, with ionic copper products. With those, you needed to ramp up the dose over 72 hours. People embraced that idea, extended it to other chelated copper medications, and then lengthened the time....but no need to do that.

I'm also concerned about using a volume measure (a scoop) for something that needs to be weighed out. Like flour in baking, how it is packed down can greatly change the amount in a "scoop". For pure metro, a common dose is 25mg/l. For a 20 gallon tank, that works out like this: 25ppm * 20 gallons / 266 = 1.88 grams. I just don't know what a "scoop" weighs. I bought an electronic gram scale off Amazon for $17 that allows me to measure that precisely.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I just declared the harptail blenny dead and pulled him out of the tank. I have a novice eye, but the distended abdomen is the only thing that looks out of order.

Sorry to see and hear but as suspected, it was Moribund. While research has become the tool of the present, you have to pick your approach and not go on one site and then come on onto another and and counter advice of either wasting precious time and relying on info which I believe was from 2016 as protocols and treatments are constantly changing may go against you . You have choices and just expressing my feelings which I mentioned As not long ago, someone did similar and blamed both sides for loss of her fish and she mixed treatments and cut cycle times short leading to her losses.
Monitor tank before any new introduction and assure your Ammonia and nitrate levels are stable and in range and nothing pops out suddenly suggesting infection or disease.
When purchasing-
Assure the fish eats or shows a wide interest in the food
Observe breathing of fish
Look for skin imperfections
See how it interacts with other fish in the tank

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Sorry to hear - I was at work all day, so I haven't been able to respond to any posts since earlier this morning.

After-the-fact, it is difficult to say what happened. As stated, I prefer not to use two medications that overlap in their range (in this case, metro and copper). Each by itself can cause stress, and both together just causes more stress. Since they are both active against protozoans, there is no reason to run them together.

While I don't think it was an issue in this case, ramping up coppersafe or copper power over 10 days is ill advised. As long as you are measuring it accurately, getting to a full dose in 24 hours is fine. Taking longer can allow diseases to take a firm foothold, as anything below 2.0 is not beneficial. This idea stemmed from the old days, with ionic copper products. With those, you needed to ramp up the dose over 72 hours. People embraced that idea, extended it to other chelated copper medications, and then lengthened the time....but no need to do that.

I'm also concerned about using a volume measure (a scoop) for something that needs to be weighed out. Like flour in baking, how it is packed down can greatly change the amount in a "scoop". For pure metro, a common dose is 25mg/l. For a 20 gallon tank, that works out like this: 25ppm * 20 gallons / 266 = 1.88 grams. I just don't know what a "scoop" weighs. I bought an electronic gram scale off Amazon for $17 that allows me to measure that precisely.

Jay

Thank you, Jay. I will look into your QT procedure tonight to see how to proceed from here with the remaining 3 fish and I will likely use your procedure from here on out.

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

Sorry to see and hear but as suspected, it was Moribund. While research has become the tool of the present, you have to pick your approach and not go on one site and then come on onto another and and counter advice of either wasting precious time and relying on info which I believe was from 2016 as protocols and treatments are constantly changing may go against you . You have choices and just expressing my feelings which I mentioned As not long ago, someone did similar and blamed both sides for loss of her fish and she mixed treatments and cut cycle times short leading to her losses.
Monitor tank before any new introduction and assure your Ammonia and nitrate levels are stable and in range and nothing pops out suddenly suggesting infection or disease.
When purchasing-
Assure the fish eats or shows a wide interest in the food
Observe breathing of fish
Look for skin imperfections
See how it interacts with other fish in the tank

I wasn't trying to come here and waste time or blame anyone. I found humble fish on this site. I didn't realize his protocols were considered so antiquated and were so different than what is used here. I am on this site many times a day trying to learn as much as I can. I'll look up jays protocols And stick with those.

 

[MnFish1]

I wasn't trying to come here and waste time or blame anyone. I found humble fish on this site. I didn't realize his protocols were considered so antiquated and were so different than what is used here. I am on this site many times a day trying to learn as much as I can. I'll look up jays protocols And stick with those.

You were just trying to get the best information as quickly as possible. No worries - and hope your other fish stay well

 

[BamaCoastPyrat]

You were just trying to get the best information as quickly as possible. No worries - and hope your other fish stay well

Thank you.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I wasn't trying to come here and waste time or blame anyone. I found humble fish on this site. I didn't realize his protocols were considered so antiquated and were so different than what is used here. I am on this site many times a day trying to learn as much as I can. I'll look up jays protocols And stick with those.

His protocols are not wrong or antiquated, just different. In fact, he thinks I'm "old school"(grin).

I only take exception to a few bits of advice he gives (mixing medicine with food in unknown amounts is one, slow ramp up of copper and dosing copper and metro at the same time are two others). There is often more than one way to "skin a cat". Virtually ANY quarantine is better than the normal "no quarantine" that so many folks seem to follow (grin).

We try to present the best protocols we can, but we can't always hit the mark every time. What we do want folks to do is for you to pick one protocol, whether it be one here, or with him, or with the BRS site, and then go with it, including support from the people who are advocating for it. I've run into issues with people starting with one protocol, and then mixing a bit in here and there from other protocols - and that is risky.

Thanks,

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I wasn't trying to come here and waste time or blame anyone. I found humble fish on this site. I didn't realize his protocols were considered so antiquated and were so different than what is used here. I am on this site many times a day trying to learn as much as I can. I'll look up jays protocols And stick with those.

I realize that - was more of a caution. Lets get this tank back to health