Eradicating ich,velvet,vermited snails and aiptasia. 10 years of luck over. Starting over!

[lone reefer]

This is my first time posting questions on this or any forum. Sorry ahead of time for how long winded this is going to be but I’m in the middle of making many decisions to which there are multiple answers and routes I could go and would appreciate advice from seasoned reefers that have been there done that. I had a 125 gallon freshwater tank that I converted to saltwater about 10 years ago. I didn’t invest much $ in the beginning because I wasn’t sure how long I would be able to have the tank. I was 27 yrs old and renting the house I had the tank at and never knew if I was going to have to give the tank up due to having to move locations. Luckily I never had to move and about a year ago I ended up buying the house I rented for over a decade. So I decided to upgrade to a waterbox 220. Now to be honest I was very ignorant and lucky with my 125 for years. I only did the minimum research into what sustaining a thriving reef tank actually took. I started with live rock and did regular water changes, and that for the most part gave me some success. A few years ago I started getting overwhelmed with making a living and water changes started falling off my to do list. Long story short over the next few years corals started diminishing and I would lose a fish occasionally probably due to water quality. I also need to point out that I never quarantined a single coral or fish and somehow never had an outbreak that took out several fish at once. I got real lucky right until I set up the new 220 waterbox. I took all the live rock and everything from the old tank and put it in the new tank, a week later I got a few new fish, one of those being a powder brown tang, and if you’d haven’t already guessed I got an outbreak of ich, or velvet but most likely ich because it took about 2 weeks for it to take out over half my fish, I feel like velvet would have been much more invasive. I was very resistant to setting up a quarantine because I didn’t want the maintenance of multiple tanks. I did try ruby reef and kick ich but I honestly believe that the fish that survived did so because of their own immune systems. I was also feeding metro and focus with vitachem on frozen food and pellets daily. I lost 4 tangs that I only had for a month, a pajama cardinal and clown fish that I had for at least 7 years. The fish that survived were a sailfin and yellow tang that I had for many years a couple cardinals and a diamond goby. I stopped use of the “reef safe” meds after the clown died and I broke down and bought another tank to house my corals which I didn’t have a lot of. Easier to remove corals in a new tank then trying to get big tangs out for qt. Then I raised the temp in the 220 with only the fish and rock to 85-87deg and lowed salinity to 1.020. This seemed to help more than medicating. After about a week of the high temp low salinity I broke down and decided to just setup a qt tank for the fish. I now have the 5 fished that survived in a 55 gallon tank from petsmart and using nitofuracin green to medicate. I’d like to point out that before I took the fish out for qt that they had already seemed to have recovered to 100% after raising heat and salinity and I had also added a 57watt uv running in a closed loop in the main display which also probably helped but was done at least a week or 2 after noticing the parasites, wish I had implemented it immediately. Another thing I was ignorant of were coral pest, mainly vermited snails and aiptasia. I knew I had aiptasia but had used a file fish in the past with great luck, but eventually that fish passed away and the aiptasia came back. So here I am with ich or velvet, out of control vermited snails on rocks and coral skeletons and a handful of aiptasia that is starting to spread. At this point I have 5 tanks setup to try to overcome these pest and get back on the right track pest free. I have the 220 and 100 waterbox tanks, which will eventually both be mixed reef tanks, a 10 gallon qt that currently has 2 baby clowns being treated with methylene blue, a 55 gallon qt for the 5 survivors being treated with nitrofuracin green, and a 14 gallon qt that is cycling with no livestock getting ready to be a coral qt. I have emptied the 220 took out all rocks water and sand then refilled with regular RO water and dumped in a couple gallons of 30-35% food grad h202 and ran 24 hours then refilled again with RO another gallon of 30% h202 ran another 24 hours scrubbed as many surfaces as I could reach and am pretty sure that has sufficiently cleaned the tank. Feed back on that would be appreciated btw as I’ve never read about someone doing that with strong h202. I took extreme measures with my live rock that had for years and did an acid bleach cure mainly because I could not see another way of eliminating the vermited snails. So I am basically starting the 220 over from square one and going the route of live sand, dry rock and adding live bacteria and the correct amount of ammonia and fish less cycling for 2-4 weeks. My dilemma comes in with the 100 waterbox that is currently housing my corals, a large clam, a tube anemone some emerald crabs and over 20 nassarius snails and cheato and some dragon’s breath that all came from the contaminated 220. I also had 3-4 pounds of siporax that I had taken from the sump of the 220 that had over a month to be seeded with bacteria from the live rock that I had for almost 10 years from the original 125, I also had a large fiji rock that I took from the 220 as well and added it to the display of the 100. Now obviously the rocks and siporax possibly contained ich eggs and definitely had the v.snails and aiptasia along with the good bacteria. I wasn’t concerned about the coral pest when I made that move because I was more concerned about trying to save the fish and should’ve bought a much less expensive tank to put the corals. But what’s done is done. Now finally here are my questions.
1. Can I avoid having v.snails and aiptasia in the 100 WB if I remove the corals and live rock and just leave the siporax and cheato/dragon’s breath in the sump for a month or 2 without feeding? Will the snails and aiptasia die without food while leaving the beneficial bacteria?
2. I have the coral qt almost ready but most of my corals and clam have v.snails, I suppose I can cut any visible signs of snails off the corals and physically remove the ones I can see then give them a good dip but they are also on the clam which I can’t dip. My concern is that I will move everything to my 14 gallon coral qt and the snails will find their way into the qt. So I could use any tips someone might have in trying to qt the contaminated corals/clam/anemone.
3. Crabs and snails, I read that methylene blue is safe for these. Is there a way I could qt them with methylene blue for a period of time to rid them of potential ich /velvet eggs?
4. Could I use the seeded siporax that I now have in the 100 to put back into the 220 in a couple weeks to add back some of the bacteria that I can’t buy in a bottle or will it more than likely already be contaminated with snails and aiptasia? I’m not too worried and ich eggs with siporax, I figure that I can leave it in the sump of the 100 and as long as there are no corals or fish I can heat it to 90deg for 2-3 weeks and that will more than likely take care of any pest that could effect fish as they have already been in a fishless tank for a couple weeks already.
If you have read all this I really appreciate it lol, and if you have some advice that could help me with my decision making I would appreciate it even more! I know I screwed up a lot along the way, but I’m glad I did because I would not have the knowledge that I do now, and I am excited for what I can do with that knowledge and any other information I can find for the future.

 

[davidcalgary29]

I'm afraid that aiptasia are photosynthetic and will likely survive even a long period of starvation -- well beyond the weeks that you're looking at. On the plus side, this is an excellent time to rid them in the tank by introducing berghia nudibranchs. They'll have an excellent chance of eliminating your aiptasia since there's nothing in your tank left to eat them.

Many people have had success eliminating vermetid worms by supergluing (gel only) the tops of the tubes so that the worms starve. Bumblebee snails can assist, but probably won't eliminate the problem on their own. I've resorted to needle-nose pliers on my few.

Methylene blue is not a known cure for ich. I would be very cautious about using it in any ich eradication program beyond providing respiratory relief for your fish. The same is true for nitrofuracin green, according to many experienced posters. The only proven treatment for ich (and other parasitic infections) remains copper, hyposalinity, or TTM (with a peroxide dip). There is some evidence that H2O2 can is somewhat effective against parasites, but it is not recommended in itself as a cure.

You will starve out the possible diagnosed ich in your Waterbox if you leave it fallow for up to 72 (76) days. A number of people have, however, had great success with a 45 day period.

H2O2 is not as effective as a disinfectant as common household bleach. I'm not sure if anyone has done a dedicated study on the antiseptic effect of hydrogen peroxide on all stages of the ich lifecycle.

 

[lone reefer]

I'm afraid that aiptasia are photosynthetic and will likely survive even a long period of starvation -- well beyond the weeks that you're looking at. On the plus side, this is an excellent time to rid them in the tank by introducing berghia nudibranchs. They'll have an excellent chance of eliminating your aiptasia since there's nothing in your tank left to eat them.

Many people have had success eliminating vermetid worms by supergluing (gel only) the tops of the tubes so that the worms starve. Bumblebee snails can assist, but probably won't eliminate the problem on their own. I've resorted to needle-nose pliers on my few.

Methylene blue is not a known cure for ich. I would be very cautious about using it in any ich eradication program beyond providing respiratory relief for your fish. The same is true for nitrofuracin green, according to many experienced posters. The only proven treatment for ich (and other parasitic infections) remains copper, hyposalinity, or TTM (with a peroxide dip). There is some evidence that H2O2 can is somewhat effective against parasites, but it is not recommended in itself as a cure.

You will starve out the possible diagnosed ich in your Waterbox if you leave it fallow for up to 72 (76) days. A number of people have, however, had great success with a 45 day period.

H2O2 is not as effective as a disinfectant as common household bleach. I'm not sure if anyone has done a dedicated study on the antiseptic effect of hydrogen peroxide on all stages of the ich lifecycle.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. As far as aiptasia I only have about 3 that I can see on the rock that also is covered with the vermetid snails, but I have read in many places that methylene blue has been used for a long time, mainly for fish eggs but also as a successful treatment for ich and other parasites. I know Copper is the standard and I’m going to use that on my 55 gallon after the nitrofuracin treatment. The NFG was used as mainly an antibiotic for some fin issues on my pajama cardinal. The methylene blue just isn’t toxic to the fish as copper is, it works by staining cells and is also supposed to be safe for snails and crabs I think it’s not as commonly used for ich because it takes out your bio filter and stains everything blue. The reason I wasn’t using copper was because I had got the 2 baby clown fish from a breeder I know so not worried about the fish bringing anything. I had used some siporax from the contaminated tank to seed the quarantine tank so really wanted to use something less toxic than copper. I just do 50% water changes on the 10 gallon qt with clowns everyday and add back the MB to the new water I put back and will only do that for 5 days. After that I will add back carbon filters and do water changes till the MB is removed than observe for the next 30-60 days. I am going to try bumblebee snails but I literally have probably over a thousand v.snails colonizing a large rock that has only been in the 100 waterbox for a few weeks so was wandering if just removing the rock would be sufficient for getting rid of the snails and adding the bumblebee for assurance? As for the h202 as a disinfectant a think in some ways it is actually superior to bleach depending on how it is used. I’m not talking about the 3% stuff you buy in the grocery store. I used 30-35% food grade h202. First I emptied the tank of all sand, rock, and water, then sprayed down every hard surface with full strength 35% h202, even pouring some down my overflow and into the sump. This stuff is strong! It is more dangerous to use than bleach because if you get any on you it burn immediately. You must be very careful handling this kind of product. I wish there were more discussions on how to use food grade h202 in this hobby but I don’t think many people know about it. It is used mainly for bleaching in paper production and used in horticulture and hydroponics. Which the stuff used for horticulture is probably your best source for the it. It is also much more expensive than bleach, about $50-$60 a gallon. The upside to using food grade h202 is that it just breaks down to water and oxygen so there is no worry about leaving traces of things like bleach in your system. The downside is that it will be used up very quickly when it comes into contact with organics. But for my purpose it was much easier running a few gallons of the stuff through my system for a couple days than trying to take everything apart to try to clean and disinfect. My tank was also fairly new and had very little organics left in the tank after removing the rocks and sand. Like I said I filled the tank with RO water and 2 gallons 30% h202 after spraying down every surface with full strength then ran for 24 hours then emptied and ran another gallon and RO water. After the second run any detritus that was left on the bottom was gone, the filter in my sump which had green and brown algae on it was back to white and the tank smelled cleaned, no fishy odor that you normally get when you empty a tank and also no bleach residue to worry about. I wish someone would do studies on this. I think most people are unaware because it’s not a product that you see at the store and it’s not cheap, I buy believe that it could have many uses in this hobby if used correctly.

 

[adittam]

Good luck with everything! I think treating all of the fish in the QT system with copper for 28 days is the best you're going to do for them, and then leaving the DT fallow with the temp raised for 45 days. As far as the aiptasia and vermetid snails go, I think you're just going to have to welcome them into your life at this point.

 

[lone reefer]

Lol appreciate it, the copper and fallow is my plan. I’ve rid myself of aiptasia in the past through natural methods so not too concerned about that. I’ve tried aiptasia x but that seems to make them spread faster if you’re not on it everyday. If you can find the right file fish that’s the way to go, very satisfying to watch your fish gobble up a baby aiptasia lol. I do believe it is possible, maybe not quick or easy but possible to rid myself of the snails in the smaller tank through natural and manual removal. It would be much more difficult or impossible in a large grown out tank but at this point it’s just 2 large rocks in a new tank. It will take several months to be sure but I will post my results!

 

[Jmcg89]

I had 2 aptaisa get in on coral frags before I started doing QT on corals and I was able remove pluck them off as much as I could and super glue over the area and I haven't seen another one in a year and a half now so that's some hope on that front!
I'm over run with vermatids though for whatever reason they stick mostly to the underside of the rocks but still drive me crazy just because I can see them.

 

[Pico bam]

+1 on vermetid solutions id like to be free of them for good. I know its possible just how?

You sound like you've got alot going on. I believe you'll have success this time around. Just don't buy anymore tanks -Advice from a true tank hoarder, me.

 

[lone reefer]

Lol definitely not buying anymore tanks! My end goal is to just have the 2 waterboxs and 1 coral tank for frags and qt. I have a huge piece of old Fiji live rock that is covered in vermetids. I’m going to remove it from the tank and place in a tub with water from the tank and some very bright lighting, then I’ll take a chisel and go to town removing every snail I can see. I also threw in about 20 bumblebee snails in the tank to hopefully take care of any I can’t see. Once back in the tank I’ll keep a close eye on things and I’ll be diligent about gluing over any that might pop up. I’m also going to be buying any future corals from Austin aqua farms which is only an hour and half from where I live to help avoid these pest in the future. Also looking at just buying fish from marine collectors, so that I don’t have to have a fish qt constantly setup. I love my lfs and the instant gratification of seeing a fish or coral and taking it home the same day but it’s just not worth the potential pest or having to spend a month or more maintaining more qt tanks.

+1 on vermetid solutions id like to be free of them for good. I know its possible just how?

You sound like you've got alot going on. I believe you'll have success this time around. Just don't buy anymore tanks -Advice from a true tank hoarder, me.

 

[lone reefer]

I had 2 aptaisa get in on coral frags before I started doing QT on corals and I was able remove pluck them off as much as I could and super glue over the area and I haven't seen another one in a year and a half now so that's some hope on that front!
I'm over run with vermatids though for whatever reason they stick mostly to the underside of the rocks but still drive me crazy just because I can see them.

That does give me some hope for the aiptasia, appreciate the reply!

 

[DothanReefer]

Lol appreciate it, the copper and fallow is my plan. I’ve rid myself of aiptasia in the past through natural methods so not too concerned about that. I’ve tried aiptasia x but that seems to make them spread faster if you’re not on it everyday. If you can find the right file fish that’s the way to go, very satisfying to watch your fish gobble up a baby aiptasia lol. I do believe it is possible, maybe not quick or easy but possible to rid myself of the snails in the smaller tank through natural and manual removal. It would be much more difficult or impossible in a large grown out tank but at this point it’s just 2 large rocks in a new tank. It will take several months to be sure but I will post my results!

in my experience (short as it may be, 2+ years so far, but i've learned some hard lessons and I'm also in process of restarting my efforts), i wouldn't give up totally on the RS AiptasiaX - it works imo...but also, why not peppermint shrimp along with the filefish? I've never had either one, only used the AX so far, but if i ever see another one i'll probably try one of the natural predators. As far as natural predators, I added 3 emerald crabs and 3 bumblebee snails (from ReefCleaners) to my WB 100.3 to combat bubble algae and vermatids. The bubble algae is gone. I have to look kind of hard for a vermatid as there are literally only a few remaining from what seemed like thousands all over the rock. Those bumblebees worked like a charm for me.

As for your fish... i had a bout with ich early in my tanks' life... even had two clowns with brook... i tried to QT and treat the clowns but they didnt make it. the ich came in on a blue tang and spread it to every other fish. i treated the tank with ReefMedic (from PolypLabs i think) per provided instructions and voila - ich gone, and that was at least 18m ago. during that whole process i remember reading that "more than likely, most aquarium fish a have ich but their healthy immune system can fight it off and keep it under control" - so maybe they still have it but are just in much better health now over the past 18m?? who knows?

anyway, i know you asked for experienced reefer comments and that's certainly not me lol, but wanted to provide some thoughts around my experiences with what you're dealing with.

good luck and happy reefing!

 

[lone reefer]

in my experience (short as it may be, 2+ years so far, but i've learned some hard lessons and I'm also in process of restarting my efforts), i wouldn't give up totally on the RS AiptasiaX - it works imo...but also, why not peppermint shrimp along with the filefish? I've never had either one, only used the AX so far, but if i ever see another one i'll probably try one of the natural predators. As far as natural predators, I added 3 emerald crabs and 3 bumblebee snails (from ReefCleaners) to my WB 100.3 to combat bubble algae and vermatids. The bubble algae is gone. I have to look kind of hard for a vermatid as there are literally only a few remaining from what seemed like thousands all over the rock. Those bumblebees worked like a charm for me.

As for your fish... i had a bout with ich early in my tanks' life... even had two clowns with brook... i tried to QT and treat the clowns but they didnt make it. the ich came in on a blue tang and spread it to every other fish. i treated the tank with ReefMedic (from PolypLabs i think) per provided instructions and voila - ich gone, and that was at least 18m ago. during that whole process i remember reading that "more than likely, most aquarium fish a have ich but their healthy immune system can fight it off and keep it under control" - so maybe they still have it but are just in much better health now over the past 18m?? who knows?

anyway, i know you asked for experienced reefer comments and that's certainly not me lol, but wanted to provide some thoughts around my experiences with what you're dealing with.

good luck and happy reefing!

Appreciate the response, years ago when I started the battle with aiptasia it came on pretty slow, so at first the aiptasia x seemed to work pretty good. The thing with aiptasia is that when it senses that it’s in danger it will start trying to reproduce and if even a cell is left it will reappear. I went through many bottles of AX for a couple years before I tried a natural method as I got tired of seeing them reappear and it seemed like there would always be a few more each time they would show back up. I tried the peppermint shrimp with no luck, I have heard of people using them though. The file fish was great and pretty soon after it was introduced my aiptasia was gone and he never bothered with any corals. That fish eventually passed away and the aiptasia slowly came back, got another file fish and once again it ate all the aiptasia. I might have been lucky though? I’ve heard of some file fish going after corals, I even had one recently that went after my clam and the clam closed down on the fish and had the file fish trapped by the mouth for at least an hour, it wasn’t pretty but the fish and clam both made it without much injury. I ended up taking that fish out after that. I just introduced several bumblebee snails so interested to see how that goes cuz I got about 8 years worth of vermetid snail growth, Im talking snails growing on snails lol, I was very unaware of them for a very long time, my tank had kind of taken a back seat to the rest of my life for the past several years so they just got outta hand. I also used the medic and raised temp to 86deg and lowered salinity to 1.020 and that seemed to really help, but also think the fishes immune system is what helped them get through it, the fish are now in a 55 gallon qt for the past week being treated with nitrofuracin green and are doing well, after a few more days I’ll stop the NFG and treat for 30 days with copper power before returning them to the 220 WB. I was honestly between shutting the whole thing down but instead I doubled down and bought 2 waterboxes and now I have 5 aquariums in my house ‍ The industry is a lot different now than it was 10 years ago when I got into it. Between the better testing equipment, lighting, information and controllers that exist now I’m excited to see what I can do. I’m taking a lot of pictures of the progression so once I have something of value I’ll start sharing more.