Ethics of Reefkeeping: Buying with a lack of knowledge

[keddre]

I'm back with my next question.
We all want to be one of greats, one of the people that make a contribution that forever changes the reef-keeping game forever; however, in order to gain knowledge you have to be willing to take risks.

This weeks question: at the risk of knowing you could loose your new specimen, or worse your tank; Would you try to raise and keep a fish or invert that barely any person knows anything about or that has a low success rate. Examples would be crinoids and many nudibranchs. I also should say that I'm not talking about impulse buys, but conscience decisions

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

I would limit such a decision to families of animals that I have experience with. Some species of wrasse are notoriously hard to keep, so I would only try those species once I have had a few to several years of experience with similar wrasse species and felt confident that I would be able to meet their needs.

Some things, such as basket and feather stars, I will never try just because I believe they need things only the ocean can provide long term. We as hobbyists should respect such a situation unless sufficient evidence and methods come about that prove otherwise.

 

[keddre]

We as hobbyists should respect such a situation unless sufficient evidence and methods come about that prove otherwise.

I understand the evidence, we can gain information about their lifestyle and habits; however, sometimes there is info we can only gain by studying in a controlled environment. Also how are we to gain methods, if we never run the risks.

 

[Lowstorm]

I HAVE done this, 'back in the day'... okay, like, 17 years ago. Sometimes things lived, sometimes things died.

 

[Yuki Rihwa]

Been there done that! I saw it, I like it then I bought it...go home start research about it, back in the day without internet I just place new live stock in the tank then see how it turn out, sometime good...sometime you will learn if turned out incompatible between species and if I still want to keep it then I just setup a new tank just for it

 

[Daltrey]

I would love to have a moorish idol but with their low success rate I would never purchase one.

 

[Salty1962]

This is why this forum is so important, to help educate fellow reefers to be responsible stewart's of our limited wildlife. I believe we do our best to educate those who are cognitive of nature's limits.

 

[ca1ore]

This is a difficult question because the answer is that it depends. There are animals whose diet is so specialized that there simply is no reasonable way to keep them alive; these should be left in the wild and I will not even try. Then there are those that are problematic for one reason or another, but with a practiced hand can be kept. These I will keep. Of course, there are also some right in the middle. A good example is the Tuka anthias (purple queen). It is possible to keep the occasional individual that breaks from its evolutionary conditioning and eats typical aquarium fare; yet the vast majority do not, and perish. In my view, these should not be collected.

That said, I have a number of fish in my tank that would be deemed 'expert only' .... Potters angel, regal angel, LemonPeel Angel, leopard wrasse, anthias .... But I've developed an acclimation approach that has proven to be quite effective at ensuring better survival rates. Took me many years to work it out though.

 

[skiergd011013]

I only keep what i know i can do well with. I stay away from those that i dont. Luckily, i do pretty good with saltwater aquariums. the only coral ive ever lost was a goniopora when i was a noob.

 

[flsalty]

I chose "other" because it would depend on the creature. For instance, I wouldn't keep a basket star because I already know it's a lot of work. I know I won't discover some simplified husbandry practice that would make it practical for the masses. I doubt that any discoveries I made would have any relevance to the scientific world as I am not a researcher.

But something like Mandarins or flame scallops, yeah. But really, I'd like to get into breeding. I just don't have the space or resources.

When discussing this as a matter of ethics keep in mind that a lot of corals were sacrificed before it was figured out how to take care of them properly. Same with fish. I remember when keeping live corals was unheard of. The only fish most people had any luck with were damsels. This hobby has come a long way.

 

[mort]

Somethings have a reputation for being hard to keep when this isn't actually the truth. I looked after several species of seahorse, pipefish and shrimp fish which were all classed as expert only and this simply wasn't my experience at all. So you need to factor in that some species will have a terrible reputation but they actually aren't terrible to keep and on the flip side some people can't keep so called easy species.

In terms of obligate feeders or coralivores, I simply won't go anywhere near them even though there are many species I'd like to try.

 

[ca1ore]

I'd partly agree with that. Blue streak cleaner is generally considered to be a difficult fish to keep, yet I have had three of them all thrive (with no special accommodations). Hard to keep in the tank, not hard to keep IME.

 

[leahfiish]

I was looking through an old aquarium book the other day and a lot of fish were marked as doomed on aquariums, but that isn't necessarily the case anymore. Instead, they are very much possible as long as they have the proper habitat. For example, mandarins were one of them but they are pretty easy nowadays, especially since collection has improved, as long as you supply them with a proper food source. For some species this is all its about, but for some it's unknown or very cost or labor intensive. If you can't commit to caring for it for its lifespan (which may be unknown but with many sw fish could easily be 10+ years) then I don't think you should attempt it.

 

[hart24601]

Yes if I have what I feel is a novel approach. For example carbon dosing and filter/biofilm feeders. Several years ago as carbon dosing (vodka, vinegar) became more accepted I noticed personally and from others how various organisms thrived from either the dosing or the microscopic life (food web) the dosing supported. So I tried a variety of sponges that have poor track records and some other filter feeders along with carbon dosing. Around 80% did pretty well (Like blue linka starfish - presumably consumed biofilm carbon dosing grew) for 8 months or so until I left the hobby at that time.

Was just anecdotal and I didn't keep the system running long enough to really talk a great deal about it, but that is my example of keeping organisms that have not historically done well.

 

[Tristren]

That said, I have a number of fish in my tank that would be deemed 'expert only' .... Potters angel, regal angel, LemonPeel Angel, leopard wrasse, anthias .... But I've developed an acclimation approach that has proven to be quite effective at ensuring better survival rates. Took me many years to work it out though.

Could you elaborate on your acclimation approach?

Tony

 

[Larry L]

We all want to be one of greats, one of the people that make a contribution that forever changes the reef-keeping game forever

Or, maybe we just want to have a nice looking tank and a relaxing hobby.

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

I selected "Other" because I was thinking Manderin. Then read your post and realized that my answer is no. I'm getting to where I don't even want a fish unless it's aquacultured.

 

[ca1ore]

Could you elaborate on your acclimation approach?

Tony

Sorry, wasn't trying to be coy; just sick of typing LOL

Pretty simple. I keep a small reef tank running with sand, live rock (and unfortunately a majano infestation at the moment), reef lighting and a skimmer. I used to use it as a coral QT, but I mostly just trade with local hobbyist I know and trust so no need for that now. So I use it as an acclimation QT for finicky fish like potters angel, venustus Angel, leopard wrasses, etc. Its got lots of algae and pods, so a new fish can sustain itself while learning to eat prepared foods in a non competitive environment. A far better way to acclimate a new fish than plopping it right into the display. Catching diseases is almost an afterthought (though I don't use meds in this tank). Think if it almost as an introduction tank. It remains permanently running.

I do also have two more traditional QT/hospital tanks that I fill as needed.

 

[40B Knasty]

When I bought my spotted mandarin. It was eating frozen foods.
When I picked up my green mandarin, because I unfortunately lost my spotted mandarin due to a nasty hit of possible brook & velvet at the same time. With the green mandarin I felt good about the challenge ahead. I did the math and set it up right for success as best as possible. They can possibly eat up to 500 pods a day. In a Tigger pod bottle is about 4000 Tigger pods estimated. So that equals 8 days, but I also learned Tigger pods do not do well in a home aquarium. So this was just a bandaid. I have a 65g so I KNOW it will wipe me out fast especially with no refugium to constantly have pods. I took Paul B's baby brine shrimp idea and added one to the tank. Setup 4 easy DIY BBS hatcheries. Also 2x 5 1/2g tanks. One w/ Tigger & the other w/ Tisbe pods. I know Tisbe pods have a success rate of living in a home aquarium. In due time that was going to be the key to my success. So everyday he had a constant heavy supply of BBS. After 1 months this happened.

I believe since he got the taste of the brine shrimp. He now has been eating the brine shrimp w/ spirulina and now mysis, because he probably thought what he was eating was the brine, but I tricked him.
As for the blueberry gorgonion. I hear the success rate is very low after 6-8 months. I believe that purchase was my biggest mistake. I also did not know that there was low success rate. Hope that person enjoyed my $60, because they lost a customer for the rest of my life. Trust is key. I will take the blame for buying it, not knowing anything about it, and trusting a person who sells something.

 

[ThunderGoose]

I put "no" partly because I'm a noob and partly because I just want to sit back and enjoy my tank. Now IF I were highly experienced and had the time and the money I might be interested in trying something difficult with the goal of discovering how to be successful with them (especially with captive breeding). But I'm not expert enough with freshwater to do that and I've been keeping FW since the mid-70s (dang, I'm getting old) (not that old, I got my first tank in 3rd grade).