Excellent independent review of the Radion diffusers

[mcarroll]

The diffuser idea is like buying a sports car then put 1000 pounds in the trunk because it is too fast. I don’t understand why the driver can’t just go easier on the peddle...

;Hilarious

I don't recall halide users back in the day going through that. Once there were options, folks who didn't like the "halide look" bought florescent fixtures – everyone on both sides of the aisle was more or less happy.

The only exception is after T5's came along....some T5 folks never seem to stop changing tube colors. So maybe that sub-group is somewhat "less happy", but still on the happy side of things – even they aren't trying to make their light into something it's not.

 

[tautog83]

I hear the point of losing par and although 25% isn't minimal most dont even run your lights at 100 % anyways . At the end of the day what do you need 500 par for ?? At least the diffusers although overpriced accomplish what they were set out out to do .

 

[ReefBeta]

The diffuser idea is like buying a sports car then put 1000 pounds in the trunk because it is too fast. I don’t understand why the driver can’t just go easier on the peddle...

Are we really buying lights for the PAR reading like you buying sports car for the horsepower? I buy the lights for growing coral, PAR reading is just a mean to an end. It's more like buying a car for commute than a sports car. As long as it can reach the speed limit on high way, adding more stuff to the car to make the ride more comfortable or enjoyable is not that crazy of an idea, is it?

 

[mcarroll]

It's more like buying a car for commute than a sports car.

Quibbling with the analogy...

Folks spend a lot of money for something that, in order to perform to expectation, needs a "creative" add-on that makes it function more like a different product.

Bystanders wonder why a different initial choice wasn't made.

Fill in your preferred make, model and market segment of vehicle.

 

[ReefBeta]

Quibbling with the analogy...

Folks spend a lot of money for something that, in order to perform to expectation, needs a "creative" add-on that makes it function more like a different product.

Bystanders wonder why a different initial choice wasn't made.

Fill in your preferred make, model and market segment of vehicle.

It doesn't "need" the diffuser to perform to expectation, it never does. What's the problem with adding a diffuser to a LED really? It's not like the benefit is hard to understand.

 

[mcarroll]

It doesn't "need" the diffuser to perform to expectation, it never does.

You can say that.

And I can say that.

And we can even agree on it!

All the folks buying the Radion diffusers, on the other hand, apparently disagree with us and they're voting with cash. (Try talking some folks out of their diffusers if you wanna test it out.)

 

[Centerline]

25% PAR reduction is not equal to 25% coral growth reduction. It's pointless to bring it out of context as your analogy. If you want a example where 25% can be consider minimal, here you go. I'm a software engineer, I write code. We add tests to test our applications. But writing tests is not cheap. If writing quality test only reduce coding speed by 25%, it's absolutely minimal, because it's considered acceptable to up to 50%. But benefit of writing tests are invaluable.

As far as I concern, we're not running some PAR race or using PAR value to mine cryptocurrency. Absolute PAR value is what I'm after. Growing coral is what matters. And that 25% reduction have no real impact on grow speed of the coral in common use case, like within 24" water depth, but it provide great benefit of reducing hotspot, while can actually bleach/kill coral. It also make it possible to increase area with adequate PAR coverage without worrying burning high PAR in the middle. Otherwise it can only be done using additional lighting modules running in lower power, which cost way more than using a diffuser. Just like the example of software testing, I would be more than happy to spend more than half of my time to write quality test cases so that the applications don't bug out in production, which could potentially cost hundreds of thousands in lost.

LOL - I've been writing software for 25 years and still hate building test suites. Nothing like some clown dev who slops some code together that manages to make it through QA and then into a test suite only to find that its killing a DB server and can scale to 3 users - there are so many craptastic developers floating around nowadays - I prefer peer / team code reviews with an engineer tossed in and a minimal test suite to ensure nothing breaks on the next rev.. So back to corals - the defuses are worth every dime

 

[bubblemytip]

Maybe ecotech will eventually move away from a puck design entirely and put forward something more similar to the LANI, GNC or Coralcare, with passive cooling.

 

[Centerline]

You can say that.

And I can say that.

And we can even agree on it!

All the folks buying the Radion diffusers, on the other hand, apparently disagree with us and they're voting with cash. (Try talking some folks out of their diffusers if you wanna test it out.)

Dont even try to take my diffusers - Ill sell my truck first!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Good review.
One thing to keep in mind is , par meters measure both intensity and spectrum.
All diffusion will as warm colors. Although minimally. I’d double check with an intensity meter. (Lux footcamdle. As red orange yellow are read by a par meter.

Well Ecotech themselves admit to a reduction of 25% in PAR, now come on would you say that was "minimal" as they do?
OK, so you can up the output if you are lucky that is. What we don't (or at least I have not read) is what if any is the reduction in PUR. Does the diffuser have any impact on PUR as I have only seen measurements for PAR and the increased spread of the light?
I admit however if you have the capacity to up the output and there is negative impact on coral colouration and growth and you like them (and of course think they are worth the money) then sure buy them. There does appear to be a much better spread of PAR helping to avoid hot spots and at the same time reducing the disco effect.

Fwiw Pur , won’t be effected.

Here’s what’s useful to a coral.

Green has recently been addded.

 

[Centerline]

Good review.
One thing to keep in mind is , par meters measure both intensity and spectrum.
All diffusion will as warm colors. Although minimally. I’d double check with an intensity meter. (Lux footcamdle. As red orange yellow are read by a par meter.


Fwiw Pur , won’t be effected.

Here’s what’s useful to a coral.

Green has recently been addded.

And this is why you have way more badges than I do ;(

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

And this is why you have way more badges than I do ;(

I still can’t program the clock on my VCR.

 

[Centerline]

I still can’t program the clock on my VCR.

LOL - at least you know what a VCR is. Ill bet a bunch of people see this and say "What's a VCR"? - Have you ever gotten used to MP3s or the horrid quality streamed music? Not me, I still by CDs and cut them to 760 lossless - I'm old and demanding

 

[Centerline]

The diffuser idea is like buying a sports car then put 1000 pounds in the trunk because it is too fast. I don’t understand why the driver can’t just go easier on the peddle...

Or raise the car a little higher off the ground. Honestly - the diffusers are a great addition.

 

[mcarroll]

Not me, I still by CDs and cut them to 760 lossless

My collection is ripped in Apple Lossless....same idea.

Sadly my HiFi system is gone, so I really can't hear much of a difference in the media these days....sure ain't gonna re-rip my collection tho!

 

[atoll]

I hear the point of losing par and although 25% isn't minimal most dont even run your lights at 100 % anyways . At the end of the day what do you need 500 par for ?? At least the diffusers although overpriced accomplish what they were set out out to do .

They didn't set out to lose 25% in efficiency however but I agree they did set out to help blend the colours. A lot of people aren't happy with the loss of PAR but its a trade off and people will make their own minds up. I do like the idea but I don't like the price esp on top of what is already an expensive new light and let's not mention the extra £100 for the reeflink to control the lights. Ecotech does have a way of screwing even more money out of their customers.

 

[Why-Me]

I haven't heard many people complain about loss of par using the diffusers until I read through this thread. From what I can tell almost everyone runs Radions at less than 100% power meaning the loss in par is easily made up by just bumping up the power intensity. Oh and here in the USA our govt takes 1/3 of everything we make (taxes) and they consider that minimal loss. Anyways, 25% loss is all relevant of what's being lost. Think if you have a light with 12 million lumens and you only need 5 million for your reef. Losing 25% of that 12 million seems like soooo much right? That's 3 million lost, oh no. But that 3 million lumens lost still leaves you with 9 million lumens which is 4 million over your goal of 5 million lumens.
TLDR the par loss is only relevant to the par needed in the first place, especially considering they have the power needed to produce the intensity we're after is more than enough and then some.

 

[atoll]

I haven't heard many people complain about loss of par using the diffusers until I read through this thread. From what I can tell almost everyone runs Radions at less than 100% power meaning the loss in par is easily made up by just bumping up the power intensity. Oh and here in the USA our govt takes 1/3 of everything we make (taxes) and they consider that minimal loss. Anyways, 25% loss is all relevant of what's being lost. Think if you have a light with 12 million lumens and you only need 5 million for your reef. Losing 25% of that 12 million seems like soooo much right? That's 3 million lost, oh no. But that 3 million lumens lost still leaves you with 9 million lumens which is 4 million over your goal of 5 million lumens.
TLDR the par loss is only relevant to the par needed in the first place, especially considering they have the power needed to produce the intensity we're after is more than enough and then some.

It's a combination of buying the lights then a reeflink then diffusers all ads up for a light that is expensive to start with. I wonder what % of people who have Radion's will buy the diffusers. I suspect enough to more than make Ecotechs investment profitable and more some at the price they are charging. We are being charged £65 for the XR30 diffuser that's about $91 each. Still, you pays your money and takes your pick and if you think they are worth the outlay fine buy them.

 

[lbacha]

I would only add the diffusers if I had a shallow tank where you are more likely to get hot spots and see the disco effect. In that situation the diffusers make perfect sense and losing 25% par is not a big issue.

I have a shallow tank and decided to go with a Orphek v4 since it is a panel style led and has better coverage out of the box for my shallow tank (I also like the fact that it's designed to run all channels evenly so you don't waste wattage on leds you won't use). I know the puck style leds look better but I think panel style led's are the future as the coverage is way better as they evenly spread the light more like t5's.

Even halides used huge reflectors to get good spread, unfortunately the design of puck led's means reflectors are out so a diffuser to spread the light is the only option.

 

[mcarroll]

Oh and here in the USA our govt takes 1/3 of everything we make (taxes) and they consider that minimal loss.

But the govt sends everyone a big fat tax-return check in March April. It'd be fun to see that from a lighting vendor.

(Edit: Duh)