Expanded tank 400 Gallons plumb return ideas. Any large water movers out there?

Discussion in 'General Equipment, Hardware, Filtration' started by joekool, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I expanded my tank to 400 gallons and I'm trying to figure out how exactly I want to plumb it.
    I'm currently running Super Dart mode.
    [​IMG]
    I was thinking of going up and over the side of the tank and along the top with 1.5'' and 4 or 5 1'' outlets. What are your ideas?
     
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  2. mcarroll

    mcarroll Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    I am a fan of spray bars, but assuming you've been happy with your current solution I'd leave it as-is/build similar and then get more flow in the tank via powerheads. Unless the pump is in your basement, it should already be delivering tons of return flow.
     
  3. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    This is a tank remodel the tank was a 210 display and I'm changing the side panels of glass to make it 400. I had this pump running only 3 3/4'' lines to the tank. I know the pump is plenty capable of pumping everything I need in the new size. Not asking about the capabilities of this pump. It can do the job fine.

    I have a blank slate as far as the new returns so I'm asking for ideas because I can do anything I want.

    Pump has 1.5'' outlet and was trying to figure out how I want to run the returns.

    Is running 1.5'' up and over along the top with 1'' feeders off it the best way?

    Should I use the manifold I made but haven't used with 4 1'' feeds from under the display?
    20171105_093202.jpg 20171105_093228.jpg

    Should I go through the bottom?
    Not sure about this as I don't want to use siphon valves but not opposed torunning down into the tank from the top with a hole drilled in elbow for anti-siphon.

    #DIYWIZARDS #REEFSQUAD
     
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  4. jda

    jda Well-Known Member

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    Up and over is fine as long as you have a plan for the siphon - you should be all set. Drill the hole just below the water line and make sure that the return chamber in the sump can handle the extra volume - there will always be some.

    You can put a swing valve on there, but I would drill the holes as well. If you do use a swing valve, cover it with blue painters tape so that it does not grow algae in there and keep it from sealing. A true-union one is best so that you can clean it out every once in a while. I don't trust these 100%, but they do work if you keep them clean and replace them every once in a while.
     
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  5. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I will be running bare bottom this time. So lots of flow will be going on. Not sure if I need a spray bar at bottom because there should be enough openness to move any debris
     
  6. jsker

    jsker Reefing is all about the adventure R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    This is beyond my experience in plumbing, but look like it is a heck of a build:)
     
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  7. dbl

    dbl It Takes Less Energy to be Nice Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I think running it up at 1.5" with 1" outlets would be fine. This is just my opinion, but I'm not a fan of check valves or the reliance of a syphon holes just under the water line. If you place your return outlets just under the water, you'll get a quick syphon break when the pump shuts down. To me, check valves and holes are just unnecessary potential fail points we need not have to worry about. As mentioned above, just make sure you have ample room in the sump to allow for the syphon.

    Again just my opinion and others will vary!
     
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  8. jda

    jda Well-Known Member

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    Debris will still settle and stick in certain places - it is impossible to keep it all stirred up no matter what you do... but this is another topic for another day. Just plan your return for your desired sump turnover rate and worry about the in-tank stuff with other pumps. If you want to have fun, then look into some Sea Swirls or OceansMotion for your return.
     
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  9. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Does anyone know about reducing pipe sizes after each branch of main return line. I saw one somewhere and wondered if it helps anything or I should just run 1.5'' along the whole top of tank and drop 4 or 5 1'' reductions off the main line
     
  10. dbl

    dbl It Takes Less Energy to be Nice Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    This, in my opinion.
     
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  11. jda

    jda Well-Known Member

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    It won't matter too much. Once you get beyond the 1.5" area, the pressure will fall off quite a bit and the piping will not limit you. 4 or 5 1" returns will feel like a trickle coming out of the pump compared to the single 1.5" line.

    Two 1" lines is about the same as a single 1.5."
     
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  12. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Yes I don't like reliance on things that can clog so the returns most likely will be just under the water line.

    I do have a 90 gallon sump and I'm sure I will have it set to handle the returned water.

    I had a great running system before and not to worried about stuff I just was wondering if anyone had a better idea than me for the return as its a blank slate right now.
     
  13. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    You think so even at roughly 3300GPH making it up there. So should I just do two 1'' outlets or just 1.5'' right into the tank.
     
  14. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    On another note I planned on installing two 2'' siphon drains and two 2'' emergency drains in my over flow. You think this is to much???
    I was thinking that if I got a bigger reeflo at some time than it would give me more than enough drain sizing.

    Anyone think 2 of each is to much????
     
  15. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    Bump!
     
  16. dbl

    dbl It Takes Less Energy to be Nice Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Build Thread Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    As to returns, I can only assume you'll be using something for internal flow - powerheads, gyres, whatever. If that's the case, and you're not relying on your returns for "flow", the goal is simply to get the water back to the tank. So you can just use two and be fine. Yes, the flow will be reduced the more you use, but it doesn't matter if you're simply trying to get water back in to the display.

    As to drains, if my memory serves (you might want to research to confirm) I think a 2" siphon will pull something like 3,500+/- gph. That's a lot of water! I'm not sure your current pump could handle two 2" drains running at full siphon. You could always put a valve on one of them in case you do upgrade your pump at some point; at least it would be there for the future.
     
  17. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I was going to put a valve on each siphon drain
     
  18. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    This is what I plumbed up before I decided to expand the tank. 20170813_173212.jpg
    20170813_173212.jpg 20170812_162434.jpg
     
  19. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    I believe your on target with the drain and elbows or valve flow at full siphon. That would be with 2 feet if drop.
     
  20. joekool

    joekool Mixed Reefer Build Thread Contributor Partner Member 2018

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    So I'm just going to run one 2" full siphon with valve and one 2" emergency drain.
     
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