Experience Wanted: Cupramine dosage levels in QT tank that strikes balance of risk and fish mortality

jreece11 · May 24, 2020

I've been running an incoming fish QT methodology that many here follow:

Get fish eating
Slowly ramp up cupramine/copper to theraputic level (.5 PPM for Cupramine)
Leave at theraputic level for 2 or 3 weeks
Remove copper
Treat with PraziPro for a week and treat internally with medicated foods

Entire process takes me about 6 weeks. Haven't introduced anything into the display tank sticking to this method the last year.

The downside is that I'm seeing high mortality rates around 20%, but did hit 40% once, of the fish in QT. It's definitly from the copper levels as fish don't die outside of that part of the treatment.

I was planning to go to .4 PPM with Cupramine with this next batch of fish...but of course the purple tang breaks out with Oodinium on day 3.

Does anyone have experience finding the sweet spot that kills parasites to an "almost guaranteed" level without killing so many fish in the process?

I am not interested in hearing all the "that's why I don't QT" comments. After my years of experience and so much research I insist on a medicated QT process.

I just want to lower the mortality level with only slightly raising the risk level of parasites surviving.

AcroNem · May 24, 2020

I quarantine absolutely everything, everything. After my time in professional quarantine I will never take that risk again, you won't get any of those comments from me. Although I will make the suggestion of maybe switching to a different type of copper, a chelated copper product like copper power. Has a much higher therapeutic level and more play before hitting a lethal dose.

jreece11 · May 24, 2020

AcroNem said:
I quarantine absolutely everything, everything. After my time in professional quarantine I will never take that risk again, you won't get any of those comments from me. Although I will make the suggestion of maybe switching to a different type of copper, a chelated copper product like copper power. Has a much higher therapeutic level and more play before hitting a lethal dose.

Thanks AcroNem. I'm open to changing my copper treatment methods if there are better ways to reduce risk and mortality rate.

Can you share the brand you use, the sweet spot PPM you found, and the ramp up time to the theraputic level?

nereefpat · May 24, 2020

I like Copper Power too. 1.75 ppm (about 1 mL per gallon) has treated me well so far.

AcroNem · May 24, 2020

I've found 1.75-2.0ppm to work well. But as always some fish won't tolerate copper so you'll have to adjust for those species and treat with a different drug/ chemical.

Borg · Jun 16, 2020

nereefpat said:
I like Copper Power too. 1.75 ppm (about 1 mL per gallon) has treated me well so far.

Nice choice! Ive switched to copper power myself in my fish only tank.

jreece11 · Jun 16, 2020

Lots of votes for Copper Power. Thanks for sharing your experience! I’ll have to make the switch with a future batch of fish.

CindyKz · Jun 16, 2020

I had 4 fish in cupramine at 0.50ppm, one would not eat. As you can see in this discussion , 0.35-0.50 ppm is actually the therapeutic range per Seachem although a Hanna checker is required for accurate levels. I targeted 0.40-0.50 ppm during treatment, all 4 fish lived and remained disease free

As soon as the levels were allowed to drop a little the Bellus began eating again.

piranhaman00 · Jun 16, 2020

Cupramine should not be used imo. Copper power is superior in every way, the most important being its therapeutic range. Fish not eating at 0.5ppm cupramine might not be reading accurately and be higher than thinking. The Hanna is useful but 0.5 is low in its range, its probably accurate at this range but not ideal.

Copper Power at 2.0ppm is what I do, I have a 0.25ppm swing in either way and I am still fine. I would highly recommend switching.

jreece11 · Jun 18, 2020

I do use the Hanna checker. The last three weeks I kept copper between .4 and .45 and only lost one of 14 fish during the treatment time.

The lower therapeutic dose definitely lowered the mortality rate.

I plan to further investigate Copper Power since it sounds like that’s where most are having better success.

ca1ore · Jun 18, 2020

Although I do not treat fish prophylactically in QT, if I do need to use medication, CP is my preferred approach. Haven't used copper (regardless of brand) in years. The only trouble with CP is that it can be difficult to find (though now that it's not the miracle COVID cure, that may be changing) and the purity can be questionable.

jreece11 · Jun 25, 2020

ca1ore said:
Although I do not treat fish prophylactically in QT, if I do need to use medication, CP is my preferred approach. Haven't used copper (regardless of brand) in years. The only trouble with CP is that it can be difficult to find (though now that it's not the miracle COVID cure, that may be changing) and the purity can be questionable.

I think CP can be really effective, but I have a hard time with anything I can't measure.

jreece11 · Jun 25, 2020

As follow up to this thread I treated my last batch of 15 fish with Cupramine at .42 to .45 PPM and only lost one fish. They were only treated for two weeks at full theraputic dose. Just hoping the oodinium I saw early on was completely erradicated before they went into the display tank.

rebels23 · Sep 30, 2020

Hi Jreece,

How is this working for you so far? I lost a flame angel due to cupramine and now some of my other fish are not really eating. I had read somewhere that even .35 PPM is sufficient but the higher dosage is recommended to be on the safe side.

TerraFerma · Sep 30, 2020

Copper Power is a bit easier on the fish than Cupramine. It's not a dramatic difference but I find tangs are less prone to HLLE in Copper Power.

The instructions for CP state 2.5ppm. Many people seem to have success with a lower level. But there are also plenty of stories of failure (parasite eradication wise) running below 2.5ppm.

jreece11 · Sep 30, 2020

rebels23 said:
Hi Jreece,

How is this working for you so far? I lost a flame angel due to cupramine and now some of my other fish are not really eating. I had read somewhere that even .35 PPM is sufficient but the higher dosage is recommended to be on the safe side.

I did a couple batches of .4 PPM after posting this and either lost one fish (out of 8) or no fish. No parasites that I can tell made it from the med/QT tank to the display tank. .4 PPM is my safe dose going forward.