Explain check valves to me and do I need one?

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I'm with him^ Along the line that EVERYTHING fails... if you are solely depending on a siphon break and it is clogged.... yeah!!! another flood.

Redundancy for the win!

 

[User1]

For the price and effort of including a check valve, why wouldn't you? A siphon break is for poor people and a check valve is pure piece of mind.

Actually, this isn't true. They both have their place and it doesn't have anything to do with rich or poor. It is all about the design of the system and at what stage was the check valve use considered and/or installed. It really makes a difference.

Several already pointed out that this is a often heated subject. Having said that they are just another tool in our toolbox to help reduce flooding. Several ways to do this I"m sure you know be it a properly designed return line placement to the storage capacity of the sump in the even of a power failure. Check valves when used correctly and of good quality and maintained offer one line of defence. Same can be said when a siphon break is used. Again, it has to be set in a proper place and replicated on all possible back fills. Maintenance is also required in order for it to work properly.

If either of these are used in a system then you need routine maintenance for them to be reliable. If one is about reducing the day to day or week to week or monthly maintenance chores then one shouldn't use either of these and properly size the sump to handle any water than may back fill the sump should one be used.

It really is that simple. Both work. Both need maintenance. Neither choice is wrong.

 

[ca1ore]

I have no idea why there is so much hate on this thread for them.

Oh man, those kinds of comments always make me laugh. Newsflash - logical explanations for why something doesn't work or isn't necessary isn't 'hate' …… If you want to use them, use them. Heck I used wye checks for years before finally concluding they were pointless. I can think of a few instances where checks might be helpful, but they can almost always be designed out.

 

[ironman187]

I always just use air gaps created by a 1/4" John Guest Fitting, in the top of the return lines, to break siphon. The outlet dumps right behind my overflow, so I can always see the flow, to make sure they don't get clogged. I haven't had one clog in the last 8 years though.

That's actually quite brilliant.

I'm with him^ Along the line that EVERYTHING fails... if you are solely depending on a siphon break and it is clogged.... yeah!!! another flood.

Redundancy for the win!

Syphon breaks are often self cleaning (although they can get clogged with algae if not drilled where light doesn't hit, or with salt creep if they are not constantly running water through). But more to the point, most people have a small hole drilled in the return just above the water-line AND leave the return close to the surface of the water. That is a double syphon break for redundancy.

 

[jschultzbass]

Oh man, those kinds of comments always make me laugh. Newsflash - logical explanations for why something doesn't work or isn't necessary isn't 'hate' …… If you want to use them, use them. Heck I used wye checks for years before finally concluding they were pointless. I can think of a few instances where checks might be helpful, but they can almost always be designed out.

no, there was a lot of actual hate towards them, haha! So, no need for the "newsflash". People weren't just discussing options but saying you SHALL NOT put them in. I also said they are usually designed out. I love mine because my return plumbing doesn't drain out and cause a lot of bubbles and splashing when return pump comes back on. That's pretty much it.

 

[Cwentz758]

So in my current situation for example. I have a 65g drilled tank one bulkhead is the overflow one is the return. I unfortunately didn’t have the fore thought of getting a bigger sump to accommodate the excessive water that drains when power is lost. So I’ve had to adjust myself and plumb in a check valve on my return line and keep the level in the sump as low as I can so I don’t overflow the sump. I’ve gotten around the issue with using a battery backup from ecotech and the check valve helping.
Some may say why don’t I just get a bigger sump now, I’m currently waiting on the space/timing to upgrade to a 750XXL or a Mode 135g infinity series lagoon tank. So I’m holding out so I don’t have to re upgrade.

 

[ca1ore]

no, there was a lot of actual hate towards them, haha! So, no need for the "newsflash". People weren't just discussing options but saying you SHALL NOT put them in.

Apparently there is, because I don't see that anyone actually said that …. and the caps are yours. It's just silly!

 

[fishguy242]

chime in ,imo never count on a check valve always have room for overflow in power failure jmo

 

[Nick30G]

I think I speak for everyone not recommending using check valves, we did not mean to hate on you guys using them we are just saying you should absolutely not rely on them to prevent a flood. If you are using a check valve and using it knowing your sump wont flood without one, that's just fine. No need for tempers to flare

 

[Softhammer]

Check valves are a safety device for very poor planning and they very often fail. Zero need for them if you plumb correctly.

 

[HighChiefKC]

Ok. Thanks for all the info!
@waterskiguy do you have any pictures of this? Trying to understand it. Thanks!

 

[JoshH]

Actually, this isn't true. They both have their place and it doesn't have anything to do with rich or poor. It is all about the design of the system and at what stage was the check valve use considered and/or installed. It really makes a difference.

Several already pointed out that this is a often heated subject. Having said that they are just another tool in our toolbox to help reduce flooding. Several ways to do this I"m sure you know be it a properly designed return line placement to the storage capacity of the sump in the even of a power failure. Check valves when used correctly and of good quality and maintained offer one line of defence. Same can be said when a siphon break is used. Again, it has to be set in a proper place and replicated on all possible back fills. Maintenance is also required in order for it to work properly.

If either of these are used in a system then you need routine maintenance for them to be reliable. If one is about reducing the day to day or week to week or monthly maintenance chores then one shouldn't use either of these and properly size the sump to handle any water than may back fill the sump should one be used.

It really is that simple. Both work. Both need maintenance. Neither choice is wrong.

I don't necessarily agree with them both needing maintenance, I had my siphon break plumbed off my return with 1/4" RODI and a valve similar to @waterskiguy, tuned it to low flow, didn't touch it for 3 years until I took my tank down, worked flawlessly during that time and I'm sure would still be working flawlessly to this day if it was still up. The only maintenance I did was look at it from time to time lol. I'll be plumbing my new return the same way and I'm sure it will work just as well.

I do think there is such a thing as too small of a siphon break hole though and one that is too small could potentially clog, or worse yet, not be large enough to provide sufficient air to break the siphon.

 

[Cwentz758]

So in my current situation for example. I have a 65g drilled tank one bulkhead is the overflow one is the return. I unfortunately didn’t have the fore thought of getting a bigger sump to accommodate the excessive water that drains when power is lost. So I’ve had to adjust myself and plumb in a check valve on my return line and keep the level in the sump as low as I can so I don’t overflow the sump. I’ve gotten around the issue with using a battery backup from ecotech and the check valve helping.
Some may say why don’t I just get a bigger sump now, I’m currently waiting on the space/timing to upgrade to a 750XXL or a Mode 135g infinity lagoon type tank.

 

[JoshH]

Ok. Thanks for all the info!
@waterskiguy do you have any pictures of this? Trying to understand it. Thanks!

All you need is a T off your return at the top with adapters to bring it down to a 1/4" RODI fitting, run the RODI tubing into your overflow box and well... that's it

 

[User1]

I don't necessarily agree with them both needing maintenance, I had my siphon break plumbed off my return with 1/4" RODI and a valve similar to @waterskiguy, tuned it to low flow, didn't touch it for 3 years until I took my tank down, worked flawlessly during that time and I'm sure would still be working flawlessly to this day if it was still up. The only maintenance I did was look at it from time to time lol. I'll be plumbing my new return the same way and I'm sure it will work just as well.

I do think there is such a thing as too small of a siphon break hole though and one that is too small could potentially clog, or worse yet, not be large enough to provide sufficient air to break the siphon.

I agree. Some would drill, some use the 1/4" John Guest, etc. I guess I assumed all would drill or pick up the maintenance side if going a more simpler approach for which I shouldn't have assumed I've had a small / baby strombus snail block one of mine years ago on a drilled hole.

I think a couple of you here pointed out the guest connectors which I think is a nice idea. That is what I use on my Bean Animal overflow and I think they are great.

 

[JoshH]

I agree. Some would drill, some use the 1/4" John Guest, etc. I guess I assumed all would drill or pick up the maintenance side if going a more simpler approach for which I shouldn't have assumed I've had a small / baby strombus snail block one of mine years ago on a drilled hole.

I think a couple of you here pointed out the guest connectors which I think is a nice idea. That is what I use on my Bean Animal overflow and I think they are great.

You are right that most would go for the straight simple approach with a single hole in the return line as this is the most popular option. And it's not an entirely set it and forget it setup, but the maintenance side of it is greatly reduced compared to a check valve A rogue snail blocking the siphon hole is definitely a concern, but there are ways around that as well, a second hole maybe? Now obviously there are limits to this, we don't want to turn the return line into swiss cheese lol!

This is where I feel (And why I went with) plumbing it in with the Guest fittings is really beneficial as it removes the siphon break out of the tank entirely. This helps prevent algae growth as well as removes the potential of something snail, algae etc covering it up or clogging it entirely It also can increase the flow of your return compared to a simple hole in the line (However negligible the difference is) as you can tune the flow of the siphon break to a trickle, something that can't be done with the drilled option. This puts the majority of your flow out the return nozzle as it's supposed to be. Does it need maintenance, sure, everything does. It should be looked at once a month orso but that's pretty much the extent of it atleast that's how it was for me. 100 ways to look at it all and at the end of the day it's up to each individual to decide what route is best for them. Same for most decisions in this hobby especially with plumbing setups, return pumps, lighting etc.

 

[ironman187]

You are right that most would go for the straight simple approach with a single hole in the return line as this is the most popular option. And it's not an entirely set it and forget it setup, but the maintenance side of it is greatly reduced compared to a check valve A rogue snail blocking the siphon hole is definitely a concern, but there are ways around that as well, a second hole maybe? Now obviously there are limits to this, we don't want to turn the return line into swiss cheese lol!

This is where I feel (And why I went with) plumbing it in with the Guest fittings is really beneficial as it removes the siphon break out of the tank entirely. This helps prevent algae growth as well as removes the potential of something snail, algae etc covering it up or clogging it entirely It also can increase the flow of your return compared to a simple hole in the line (However negligible the difference is) as you can tune the flow of the siphon break to a trickle, something that can't be done with the drilled option. This puts the majority of your flow out the return nozzle as it's supposed to be. Does it need maintenance, sure, everything does. It should be looked at once a month orso but that's pretty much the extent of it atleast that's how it was for me. 100 ways to look at it all and at the end of the day it's up to each individual to decide what route is best for them. Same for most decisions in this hobby especially with plumbing setups, return pumps, lighting etc.

I keep seeing people talk about using John Gust fittings, but I can't seem to picture how they are plumbed into a return system.

 

[JoshH]

I keep seeing people talk about using John Gust fittings, but I can't seem to picture how they are plumbed into a return system.

A PVC T on the return with a slip reducer to a 1/4" Female thread, then a 1/4" male thread to RODI fitting. Easier to plumb in on an over the top return however I will be plumbing my new system with a through the back return. I'll run almost the same setup using a T but the straight line will lead to the reducer and the T'd off portion will be the return point.