Feel like quitting 2 years almost no growth please help sps dominate

[Ryan Mansa]

The source of light matters when it comes to PAR. Let's assume for a minute that everything else is cool and the corals are acclimated...

You can put your corals outside under the sun a few inches under the surface at 1750-2000 PAR and they will thrive.
Try 2000 par with a MH and the corals will burn and die, but you can get up to 1300-1400, or so, and they will thrive.
Try that with T5s and they will burn and die, but you can get over 1000 and have them thrive.
Try that with LED and they will burn and die for sure... anything over 350 can be risky and nearly nobody has gotten over 500 for long periods of time with good results.

This is all about quality. I believe that red and far-red has to be there for higher light situations - Emerson effect. You simply cannot compare the PAR in a T5 or MH tank to that of a LED tank. When you see a 600-700 PAR reef, check the lights and compare.

I routinely run 600-700 in parts of my tanks with my MH, but you cannot do this with LED lit tanks. 350 needs to be about the max with the LEDs and if you want more light, then get more T5s. Even then, hours need to be short like 6-7. If you want a high PAR reef, then gets some MH or T5s.

*** all of this said, you have to really pay attention to whom is using the PAR meter... some of them need correction factors by as much as 32% and not everybody know how to use them correctly... so a reading could be 32% low or 32% high if they are using a cheaper/older meter. Some people get it right, but it is worth asking about if you are wanting to use a post as a data point.

I used a apogee 510 rented from brs , maybe I should re rent it and re test it was 1.5 years ago , I turned the lights down for you 1 hour less core spectrum as well this morning , I called ecotech as well they said very hard to believe my light set up is over lighting that tank , they said they would look else where to a trace element or the fact I started on Marco rocks

 

[Ryan Mansa]

After reading how immaculate your tank is and reading what you've been up to I'd say maybe like in some other post your corals aren't getting enough organics in the water colum to feed off of , most reefs out in the wild do have a bit of that mulm lying around in creavaces , so perhaps you may conciser a cyptic zone to help increase biodiversity in a rubble pile or something?

I have a pile of ceramic biospheres in chamber 1 that I never touch , it’s crawling with pods and critters , when I shine a flash light in my tank there are millions of creatures and things working and moving and feather dusters , the rock matured really nicely in my opinion , but it will never be live rock , I’m very nervous about getting a random live stone and adding it but maybe that’s a missing link

 

[jda]

The apogee 510 is good and needs no correction - I was not saying that you did it wrong, only that a lot of people do, so pay attention to the details when reading their posts or seeing numbers in articles. I will only pay attention if they post about what meter that they used.

I have never heard of a manufacturer yet who will admit that some of their equipment is causing issues. None. You could write CoralVue about their pump not moving water and they would tell you to check the trace elements... just the nature of the beast (actually, CoralVue would probably help you). 12 hours, even with ramp, is just too much for LEDs at high output - if a different kind of light, then OK, but not LEDs unless they are kept lower.

Let the T5s do the heavy lifting for the longest time and then use the LEDs for 6-7 hours at a reasonable/lower output. If you had that light lower to the tank, then the T5s might be enough nearly all on their own.

 

[Udest]

I wouldn't fret too much about adding a piece of actual lr since in essence your rock is now live , when you added frags you seeded the rock though perhaps back off the aggressive cleaning for a bit and let levels rise a tiny bit and see if that makes a difference. I say that because when I cleaned all my tank a little too well all my corals got a little upset and closed up for several weeks till my tank started getting a bit dirty again.

 

[Fishingandreefing]

I ain’t complaining if my corals are alive! Just kidding, but seriously. If your corals are not dying, you’re doing something right but just need that hint why aren’t growing. Keep it up man, my corals are dying but at the same time growing.

 

[Udest]

Yep it's just a matter of tinkering and seeing what they like , heck I've been in about as long as you have been almost two years but I'm only running a shoestring budget 5 gallon so if I can manage you undeniably got this one in the bag with all that equipment.

 

[TX_Punisher]

I feel your pain. You have spent $$ on nice equipment, been religious with water changes, tested, and done what should work. I've recently starting dosing kalk and added a calcium reactor and have seen an uptick in growth where I was getting very little. My sticks get hit with 4 mp40's and if you look at them, some do base out forever it seems. So, as others have said, too much flow is a "thing."

I think you are on the right track with lowering lighting intensities/photo period and lowering flow. I wouldn't go out and change many more things than that at once. Give it 2-3 months and compare to what you're seeing today and then assess from there.

 

[Ryan Mansa]

Thanks everyone wow you guys are beyond nice this is awesome way different from the help or things I was getting else where , this is truly amazing , I just want to let everyone know I have only done two things today , which is all I will be doing for a month or so is , I took 1 hour off my core time which is now at 7 hours , I don’t believe the blues and Uv at 100 percent alone could be hurting my corals sorry I’ll have to fight everyone on it ,
My T5s are at 10 hours and they have always been at 10 hours they are all blue plus btw if anyone thinks I should swap a bulb out for a different type feel free to chime in

the mp10s went from short pulse to reef crest
The gyres are now on gradual pulsing they where both at 100 now the xf 350 on left is 50 and the xf 330 is at 60 , I think I have covered everyone’s ideas and willing to change for you guys to see if it’s possibly over lit or over flowed

 

[Udest]

Try it out and post back we'd love to see how things turn out : )

 

[Ryan Mansa]

The apogee 510 is good and needs no correction - I was not saying that you did it wrong, only that a lot of people do, so pay attention to the details when reading their posts or seeing numbers in articles. I will only pay attention if they post about what meter that they used.

I have never heard of a manufacturer yet who will admit that some of their equipment is causing issues. None. You could write CoralVue about their pump not moving water and they would tell you to check the trace elements... just the nature of the beast (actually, CoralVue would probably help you). 12 hours, even with ramp, is just too much for LEDs at high output - if a different kind of light, then OK, but not LEDs unless they are kept lower.

Let the T5s do the heavy lifting for the longest time and then use the LEDs for 6-7 hours at a reasonable/lower output. If you had that light lower to the tank, then the T5s might be enough nearly all on their own.

I took 1 hour of my core time it’s 7 hours now , blues on both sides of that for viewing pleasure , t5s 10 hours always have been , and the lights are 8.5 inches off water measured

 

[Ryan Mansa]

Try it out and post back we'd love to see how things turn out : )

Oh I will , I will not stop updating till I have colonies

 

[Udest]

Looks like I'ma gonna be following ya to see what happens.

 

[User1]

You have close to 8 pages of suggestions so nothing I can add. I just wanted to say that two years isn't that long in the big picture so not sure I would be worried about it at the moment. I do not see a lot of base rock in the tank nor know what you started with. Take dry rock for example that alone could take two years to mature. Remember you need a solid foundation for corals to grow and not just a cycled tank.

I can say having been through a similar process of lack of coral growth after a tank upgrade it wasn't until 18 to 24 month mark did everything test coral wise start to take off. And by that I mean seeing clear signs of growth clearly extending beyond the base. It takes time. Nothing in this hobby is fast regardless of what many portray.

Hang in there. Looks like a nice tank and above all don't start turning knobs yet.

 

[Ryan Mansa]

You have close to 8 pages of suggestions so nothing I can add. I just wanted to say that two years isn't that long in the big picture so not sure I would be worried about it at the moment. I do not see a lot of base rock in the tank nor know what you started with. Take dry rock for example that alone could take two years to mature. Remember you need a solid foundation for corals to grow and not just a cycled tank.

I can say having been through a similar process of lack of coral growth after a tank upgrade it wasn't until 18 to 24 month mark did everything test coral wise start to take off. And by that I mean seeing clear signs of growth clearly extending beyond the base. It takes time. Nothing in this hobby is fast regardless of what many portray.

Hang in there. Looks like a nice tank and above all don't start turning knobs yet.

I have only made two small changes and will make nothing more

 

[drawman]

Thanks everyone wow you guys are beyond nice this is awesome way different from the help or things I was getting else where , this is truly amazing , I just want to let everyone know I have only done two things today , which is all I will be doing for a month or so is , I took 1 hour off my core time which is now at 7 hours , I don’t believe the blues and Uv at 100 percent alone could be hurting my corals sorry I’ll have to fight everyone on it ,
My T5s are at 10 hours and they have always been at 10 hours they are all blue plus btw if anyone thinks I should swap a bulb out for a different type feel free to chime in

the mp10s went from short pulse to reef crest
The gyres are now on gradual pulsing they where both at 100 now the xf 350 on left is 50 and the xf 330 is at 60 , I think I have covered everyone’s ideas and willing to change for you guys to see if it’s possibly over lit or over flowed

I have only made two small changes and will make nothing more

You are smart to let things settle with the two changes you've made. Good luck!

 

[Stoney]

Many of you commenting are far better than me at growing acros. But if the issue really is too much light or flow, why would the frags encrust until they reach the bottom edge of the plug and then just stop? Shouldnt photo/flow inhibition stunt their growth from the beginning? I dont see a single frag that's encrusted past the stem. Not to mention the birdsnest and duncan that dont seem to mind the light/flow. The sandbed doesn't look like it's being blown around either.

 

[Ryan Mansa]

Many of you commenting are far better than me at growing acros. But if the issue really is too much light or flow, why would the frags encrust until they reach the bottom edge of the plug and then just stop? Shouldnt photo/flow inhibition stunt their growth from the beginning? I dont see a single frag that's encrusted past the stem. Not to mention the birdsnest and duncan that dont seem to mind the light/flow. The sandbed doesn't look like it's being blown around either.

I was wondering why no one has noticed that the birdsnest and the Duncan are taking the light and flow like a champ and all the zoas and growing like weeds , and yes has anyone else noticed that they all grow down the stems and stop , guys I did what you said and made the two changes , I’m going to stay optimistic but look at what this guy just said , I mean it makes total sense , where the gyres intersected just think how much flow that birdsnest got hammered with and it tanked it and grew to a size of a Mellon in 8 months , so why would I have changed anything along the way ? Can you guys see my frustration now ?

 

[Albertan22]

I haven’t read through the whole post, but have you taken a set of bone cutters and nipped any of the tips? I have grown only a few acros (although my new tank I am building now will be sps heavy) but I have had them stall in the past. Someone gave me the advice to nip the tip of the coral to stimulate a healing response and it did in fact cause new growth to take off. I know you are trying your 2 things and it’s smart to not change everything at once. You might consider nipping on of your less expensive specimens and seeing if it does anything though.

 

[Ryan Mansa]

par 450 flow Absoultley hammered by 2 gyres where they meet in the middle and then flow turns random

 

[Ryan Mansa]

I haven’t read through the whole post, but have you taken a set of bone cutters and nipped any of the tips? I have grown only a few acros (although my new tank I am building now will be sps heavy) but I have had them stall in the past. Someone gave me the advice to nip the tip of the coral to stimulate a healing response and it did in fact cause new growth to take off. I know you are trying your 2 things and it’s smart to not change everything at once. You might consider nipping on of your less expensive specimens and seeing if it does anything though.

Nervous to do that , I will give these changes one month if by Mid late June I will try that