Feel like quitting 2 years almost no growth please help sps dominate

[X-37B]

Nice work 90s looking good , I’m curious as why he said bring the t5 out to 12 , mine are at 10 hours and I thought I was pushing them , but they are all just blue plus so I thought 10 would be a good cap , I’m really wondering if I’m over flowing my tank , man that just sounds so crazy to me nothing looks upset over the flow , polyps dancing like crazy and very good pe , I will lower the gyres in am ,

I say that looks like a good plan. Start with the flow and go from their.
Only change one thing at a time. Keep us updated on your awesome looking tank.

 

[X-37B]

Nice work 90s looking good , I’m curious as why he said bring the t5 out to 12 , mine are at 10 hours and I thought I was pushing them , but they are all just blue plus so I thought 10 would be a good cap , I’m really wondering if I’m over flowing my tank , man that just sounds so crazy to me nothing looks upset over the flow , polyps dancing like crazy and very good pe , I will lower the gyres in am ,

He also said led's for 6-7 hours. Again just change the flow and take your time. Most hybrid led users only run what he had implied 6-7 hours.

 

[jda]

I know that you discounted Mike's article about dry rock, but I think that you will look back in a year and laugh as your tank matures more and this all gets easier - the biodiversity phenomena is real and goes beyond bacteria in a bottle. IMO, the T5s are the best quality light that you have, so feel free to run them like 10 hours, or more, and let them do the heavy lifting if you need more viewing time and you had your LEDs at 12 hours for this reason.

I do not think that the flow is all of it, but every little thing helps. Your frags look thick to me and like they are just scared to branch out. Too much flow can do this. To some people, flow is about seeing who has the largest johnson, but it should not be about that... you need to have a competent amount, but beyond this is unnecessary, IMO.

If you are really impatient, then snip the tops off of a few of the corals and see if that can get them to branch - I am talking about a small amount like 1/16th of an inch. If they are healthy, then this will cause no issues. This works more times than not with a stubborn coral or two, but usually in these situations, people are having all their other corals grow like crazy, so I do not know if this will work in your case where nothing is growing.

I do not remember if you ever posted your tank pH, but if you have a chronically low pH, then this is the season to open up a bunch of windows and get your home air'd out and have your tank pH rise. If your tank pH is cool, then ignore this. I had pH from 7.8 to 8.0 for years with no growth issues, but people whom I respect have growth issues with lows below 7.8 and highs below 8.0. The best way to do this is to just move air out of your home - it has benefits for you too as long as you don't live in a place where pollen is a killer.

90's - you can do a lot worse than what Ed does and he is a great example to follow. We should take this offline and not disrupt this thread, so open a new one or send me a PM, but in general, if you are happy then let it alone.

 

[Ryan Mansa]

I say that looks like a good plan. Start with the flow and go from their.
Only change one thing at a time. Keep us updated on your awesome looking tank.

I agree , I won’t be touching the lighting at all tomorrow as in I truly feel the lights are not that high par , I just watched a tank on YouTube a guy par’d his led tank and he was hitting 6-700 , I did go back to a guys tank on IG that he started the same time I did and we have almost identical setups , I just saw one thing that stood out his tank was a reefer 350 , and had soooo much less power heads /flow , and his tank blew up in a year , maybe it is over flowed I guess

 

[X-37B]

I know that you discounted Mike's article about dry rock, but I think that you will look back in a year and laugh as your tank matures more and this all gets easier - the biodiversity phenomena is real and goes beyond bacteria in a bottle. IMO, the T5s are the best quality light that you have, so feel free to run them like 10 hours, or more, and let them do the heavy lifting if you need more viewing time and you had your LEDs at 12 hours for this reason.

I do not think that the flow is all of it, but every little thing helps. Your frags look thick to me and like they are just scared to branch out. Too much flow can do this. To some people, flow is about seeing who has the largest johnson, but it should not be about that... you need to have a competent amount, but beyond this is unnecessary, IMO.

If you are really impatient, then snip the tops off of a few of the corals and see if that can get them to branch - I am talking about a small amount like 1/16th of an inch. If they are healthy, then this will cause no issues. This works more times than not with a stubborn coral or two, but usually in these situations, people are having all their other corals grow like crazy, so I do not know if this will work in your case where nothing is growing.

I do not remember if you ever posted your tank pH, but if you have a chronically low pH, then this is the season to open up a bunch of windows and get your home air'd out and have your tank pH rise. If your tank pH is cool, then ignore this. I had pH from 7.8 to 8.0 for years with no growth issues, but people whom I respect have growth issues with lows below 7.8 and highs below 8.0. The best way to do this is to just move air out of your home - it has benefits for you too as long as you don't live in a place where pollen is a killer.

90's - you can do a lot worse than what Ed does and he is a great example to follow. We should take this offline and not disrupt this thread, so open a new one or send me a PM, but in general, if you are happy then let it alone.

Thanks, I will let it ride for now.

 

[Ryan Mansa]

I know that you discounted Mike's article about dry rock, but I think that you will look back in a year and laugh as your tank matures more and this all gets easier - the biodiversity phenomena is real and goes beyond bacteria in a bottle. IMO, the T5s are the best quality light that you have, so feel free to run them like 10 hours, or more, and let them do the heavy lifting if you need more viewing time and you had your LEDs at 12 hours for this reason.

I do not think that the flow is all of it, but every little thing helps. Your frags look thick to me and like they are just scared to branch out. Too much flow can do this. To some people, flow is about seeing who has the largest johnson, but it should not be about that... you need to have a competent amount, but beyond this is unnecessary, IMO.

If you are really impatient, then snip the tops off of a few of the corals and see if that can get them to branch - I am talking about a small amount like 1/16th of an inch. If they are healthy, then this will cause no issues. This works more times than not with a stubborn coral or two, but usually in these situations, people are having all their other corals grow like crazy, so I do not know if this will work in your case where nothing is growing.

I do not remember if you ever posted your tank pH, but if you have a chronically low pH, then this is the season to open up a bunch of windows and get your home air'd out and have your tank pH rise. If your tank pH is cool, then ignore this. I had pH from 7.8 to 8.0 for years with no growth issues, but people whom I respect have growth issues with lows below 7.8 and highs below 8.0. The best way to do this is to just move air out of your home - it has benefits for you too as long as you don't live in a place where pollen is a killer.

90's - you can do a lot worse than what Ed does and he is a great example to follow. We should take this offline and not disrupt this thread, so open a new one or send me a PM, but in general, if you are happy then let it alone.

Everyone can side track in here that’s cool to me ! More data and opinions the better , I use a co2 scrubber and leave the window cracked 24/7 the ph is pegged , okay I didn’t know the t5s could go longer I’ll bring them out a little more slowly over time I thought 10 was good but If you say push further then I’ll go for it I’m up for all ideas and stuff thanks everyone !

 

[Ryan Mansa]

I just had a kind of ah ha moment , a month or two ago , I totally forgot to clean all my power heads , I noticed this because my sand was getting dirtier then I like , the gyres where so clogged , but I remember saying a week or two before the cleaning , wow my corals are really growing ... hmmmmmm I wonder

 

[X-37B]

I just had a kind of ah ha moment , a month or two ago , I totally forgot to clean all my power heads , I noticed this because my sand was getting dirtier then I like , the gyres where so clogged , but I remember saying a week or two before the cleaning , wow my corals are really growing ... hmmmmmm I wonder

Now thats an AH HA moment.
If you dont keep a daily log start one. It helps my old brain when needed.

 

[jda]

LED par cannot be the same as T5 or MH par. I will get into this more tomorrow..

90s - I run my Mh for 9-10 hours on/off. This is enough IME.

 

[Ryan Mansa]

Now thats am AH HA moment.
If you dont keep a daily log start one. It helps my old brain when needed.

I only log params on a Calendar, maybe I just need to start writing down all my daily “things I’ve noticed”

 

[Spare time]

Interesting , never thought I could over par it with the set up I have I was thinking my lights where not power full enough , I did par the tank out middle of the scape I was hitting 500 seemed okay to me 220-250 sand bed 450-500 mid

Check out Dana Riddle's video

 

[Ryan Mansa]

Check out Dana Riddle's video

I watched it manyyyyy times , I’m talking about tri color tenuis not a portities sorry spelling , and other corals of that covetedness I think he picked a terrible coral to test tbh

 

[Ryan Mansa]

So my 5 cents.

I think it’s mainly to much Par causing photo inhibition. To point to the guys doing it really well WWC is running a 12 hour photoperiod with about a half hour ramp up and down. With par in the middle area between 200-350. 400-500s seem fine for the upper 1/4 of the tank but it’s just a lot of par.

Ive been using this to model my own tanks growth and have gotten almost a half inch growth on my green slimer.

don’t quit though whatever you do. Your keeping everything alive and healthy Be proud of all the work you’ve done so far

I agree to a point , what about radion tanks with 5 xr30 pros then ? I’m not trying to argue I’m just trying to diagnose and everything I think of I find a tank with more lighting power , I personally hate that I bought xr15s and wish I had 2 xr30 gen4 pros maxed out up there

 

[Ryan Mansa]

Feeling motivated again this am after everyone trying to help me overwhelmed by the ammount of support I got , truly grateful for you guys I have put the mp10s in reef crest instead of .5 short pulse and I have halfed the flow of the gyres

 

[Ryan Mansa]

To also please the over lighters I have taken 1 hour off the core ab+ spectrum so it’s 7 hours whites green and red at 24 percent , and 100 percent of blues and uv , and there is a all blue period or 2.5 hours on each side of that just blues , also I checked my t5s they are on 10 hours as well , I did not put any cloud cover due to no one at the moment can tell me how it works I’ll have to email EcoTech , also my lights are 8.5 9 ish off water line ,

 

[Ryan Mansa]

So I left for work for the day but I would like to say one thing , the hour or so with the lower flow has got me worried / amazed , the worrying part is I am not use to it and it just seems so less to me , but the amazing thing is to me is that most if not all the acros PE Has increased even further ! I thought I had great pe if before now they look like they have hair on some !! Maybe this could be it but I want to actively report all findings as fast as I can I don’t plan on leaving this thread in the dark till I have Clementine sized pieces , at that point I’ll feel like I’m on the right track

 

[2Sunny]

Wow, can't believe how many great reefers joined in here. Just goes to show you how many folks think your reef is AWESOME ;Happy

So many great opinions expressed here, and it just goes to show there is not "one" best way as even the masters have many, many variables. EXCEPT: I think one factor hasn't been highlighted yet and that is patience and perseverance. Nearly all the great tanks and reefers mentioned have been doing this for many, many years. So something just to keep in mind. Also, I just want to offer some slight counter thoughts on the lighting thing. From the first masters article we read this:

Sanjay ran the highest flow within a tank by far with his flow rate of 60 times per hour. Considering that he also keeps the highest nutrient and alkalinity levels as very high light levels I wonder if this may be the recipe for getting the most rapid growth out of corals possible and helps explain the phenomenal growth he gets in his tank. After having seen his tanks at least yearly for the past 25 years I can attest that his corals grow faster than I have seen in any other tank I have come across.

and from the second article this:

Sanjay’s tank where the PAR at the surface in some places measured as high as 1400 and even half way below the surface was over 600. In comparison the PAR in Jeff’s tank was only 425 and halfway down was only 290. But surprisingly the lowest PAR was in the WWC tank where on the surface it was only approximately 300 PAR and halfway down in the tank 145.

and in my own reef I run 1200 PAR at the top and 250-300 on the bottom with 500 to 700 in the mid-range, and I can assure you I have excellent growth. Not saying you should copy me or anyone else just offering a second thought on the question of photoinhibition, and I agree with JDA an increase in your bio-diversity by getting a couple pieces of LR from someplace like KP Aquatics might help as well.

There is a well known reefer, ReefBum, who has started and stopped several times and won Tank of the Month on RC and other forums as well. In his latest go at starting a reef he went with all dry rock and noticed his growth rate was vastly less than he had experienced in years past. Anyways, just one more data point to make it all the more confusing

ReefBum's Latest Journey

My last thought to make things still more confusing is take a look at BigE's tank. He runs only T5s and full on full off only 8 hours per day and has phenomenal colors and growth: Big E 80g Rimless

 

[Ryan Mansa]

Wow, can't believe how many great reefers joined in here. Just goes to show you how many folks think your reef is AWESOME ;Happy

So many great opinions expressed here, and it just goes to show there is not "one" best way as even the masters have many, many variables. EXCEPT: I think one factor hasn't been highlighted yet and that is patience and perseverance. Nearly all the great tanks and reefers mentioned have been doing this for many, many years. So something just to keep in mind. Also, I just want to offer some slight counter thoughts on the lighting thing. From the first masters article we read this:



and from the second article this:



and in my own reef I run 1200 PAR at the top and 250-300 on the bottom with 500 to 700 in the mid-range, and I can assure you I have excellent growth. Not saying you should copy me or anyone else just offering a second thought on the question of photoinhibition, and I agree with JDA an increase in your bio-diversity by getting a couple pieces of LR from someplace like KP Aquatics might help as well.

There is a well known reefer, ReefBum, who has started and stopped several times and won Tank of the Month on RC and other forums as well. In his latest go at starting a reef he went with all dry rock and noticed his growth rate was vastly less than he had experienced in years past. Anyways, just one more data point to make it all the more confusing

ReefBum's Latest Journey

My last thought to make things still more confusing is take a look at BigE's tank. He runs only T5s and full on full off only 8 hours per day and has phenomenal colors and growth: Big E 80g Rimless

I know them all and have seen them all I have been a long time lurker here for many years , I’m finally posting because everything I’ve learned isn’t working , so I’m finally posting , my turn over rate was x180 but I changed that this am

 

[jda]

The source of light matters when it comes to PAR. Let's assume for a minute that everything else is cool and the corals are acclimated...

You can put your corals outside under the sun a few inches under the surface at 1750-2000 PAR and they will thrive.
Try 2000 par with a MH and the corals will burn and die, but you can get up to 1300-1400, or so, and they will thrive.
Try that with T5s and they will burn and die, but you can get over 1000 and have them thrive.
Try that with LED and they will burn and die for sure... anything over 350 can be risky and nearly nobody has gotten over 500 for long periods of time with good results.

This is all about quality. I believe that red and far-red has to be there for higher light situations - Emerson effect. You simply cannot compare the PAR in a T5 or MH tank to that of a LED tank. When you see a 600-700 PAR reef, check the lights and compare.

I routinely run 600-700 in parts of my tanks with my MH, but you cannot do this with LED lit tanks. 350 needs to be about the max with the LEDs and if you want more light, then get more T5s. Even then, hours need to be short like 6-7. If you want a high PAR reef, then gets some MH or T5s.

*** all of this said, you have to really pay attention to whom is using the PAR meter... some of them need correction factors by as much as 32% and not everybody know how to use them correctly... so a reading could be 32% low or 32% high if they are using a cheaper/older meter. Some people get it right, but it is worth asking about if you are wanting to use a post as a data point.

 

[Udest]

After reading how immaculate your tank is and reading what you've been up to I'd say maybe like in some other post your corals aren't getting enough organics in the water colum to feed off of , most reefs out in the wild do have a bit of that mulm lying around in creavaces , so perhaps you may conciser a cyptic zone to help increase biodiversity in a rubble pile or something?