Feel like quitting 2 years almost no growth please help sps dominate

[stephj03]

To me the biggest lesson for anyone that reads this thread is that larger frags are worth the extra money if waiting 2yrs for grow out is unacceptable to you.

IMO, this tank is an example of a fairly standard time line scenario for today's booger frags.

Expect 1.5-2yrs for anything less than a 1" acro frag to grow out especially if the tank was less than 1.5yrs old when the frags went in.

Maybe I'm too old school but building an SPS ecosystem is a 4yr proposition to me unless I'm transferring established rock and livestock to a new tank.

 

[Tanggy]

@Ryan Mansa . Beautiful tank you have there. I am happy you are seeing some growth. In terms of the T5, what time does it turn on and off? What is your PAR level with the T5 and X15 on together? Thanks.

 

[BAUCE]

I just grabbed that quick cap shot before work , when a change water Friday night I’m going to grab a ton of pics , most non baller acros doubled in size

any updates Ryan?

 

[Ryan Mansa]

any updates Ryan?

Hey guys life got in the way and I didn’t grab photos this weekend because it took me north of 2 hours to scrape all the coraline out of the entire tank and but a brand new sand bed , will have photos this weekend during water change , it was quiet a ordeal bringing the tank back to showroom new but it looks incredible with no coraline and bright white sand !

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

While we’re waiting for the OP, here are some updated pics from my tank I’ve been tracking since adding the cloud coverage feature. I actually redesigned my schedule bc I wanted more dramatic par peaks and valleys that the cloud effect wasn’t able to consistently perform. I apologize they’re so fuzzy.....

 

[Reef Dude]

...

 

[Coolmoe]

This has been a fascinating read. I have a Red Sea 350 I am converting to the Triton method. Converting my fudge to a refigium this week. I can’t get my nutrients under control with any other method. Had it ALMOST there, but had a flatworm explosion, medicated and destroyed almost everything. Still recovering 2 years later.

 

[Reef Dude]

While we’re waiting for the OP, here are some updated pics from my tank I’ve been tracking since adding the cloud coverage feature. I actually redesigned my schedule bc I wanted more dramatic par peaks and valleys that the cloud effect wasn’t able to consistently perform. I apologize they’re so fuzzy.....

Cool. Thanks for the photos. Very nice growth! So, would you say that this is faster growth than you’ve seen without the cloud cover feature or how does it compare?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Cool. Thanks for the photos. Very nice growth! So, would you say that this is faster growth than you’ve seen without the cloud cover feature or how does it compare?

I believe so. I have a couple others that are getting much better coloration as well but it’s too early and too difficult to properly showcase currently

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

 

[BAUCE]

Well I’m glad someone is posting some growth shots! Looks great

 

[Hydrored]

@Chaswood79 looking great as usual

 

[Graffiti Spot]

To me the biggest lesson for anyone that reads this thread is that larger frags are worth the extra money if waiting 2yrs for grow out is unacceptable to you.

IMO, this tank is an example of a fairly standard time line scenario for today's booger frags.

Expect 1.5-2yrs for anything less than a 1" acro frag to grow out especially if the tank was less than 1.5yrs old when the frags went in.

Maybe I'm too old school but building an SPS ecosystem is a 4yr proposition to me unless I'm transferring established rock and livestock to a new tank.

Completely agree. I have lost so many booger frags in my rocks that I won’t buy anything if it’s a single branch 1” frag or less anymore. I have had so many 1/2” nubs do nothing for long periods of time. In my Rubbermaid I didn’t buy any tiny frags with exception to a few things. I went out of my way to buy large chunks and pay extra for it. None of the larger pieces stalled or had slow growth. I really feel like these 1/2” nub fragments only go to make it harder for hobbiests to propagate and grow these corals and easier for the sellers to make money. How many people have bought these tiny nubs of the same coral over and over trying to get it to live? I dunno but I would bet if they got actual frag sized pieces they would only have to try once. I would urge newer reefers to only buy frags that are 1.5” or bigger. Or what most vendors or collectors call “mini colonies”. The mini colonies and mother colonies I see on the internet these days are straight up laughable.
Decent sized frags (1.5” with multiple “branches”) should become 3”-4” round colonies in one year and by three years the corals should be dinner plate sized. I have not seen this type of growth much these days except in reefers tanks who don’t mess with things and just let things go. These days I see so many people doing things that disrupt corals growth like cutting tiny corals, changing things to reach certain parameters, trying a bunch of products that are not needed what so ever, adding unneeded equipment, and rescaping or messing with the placements of corals and rocks. A lot of the nicest tanks you will see are the most simple systems out there.

Now back on topic... Once a coral gets to the point where it encrusts the base well and has a few branches it should take off. I think a lot of what people are seeing is this. Not new growth that was brought on by allowing the corals “time to rest”.
I thought I remember someone experimenting with turning off their halides for an hour or two in the middle of their light cycle with this same thought a long time ago. They figured it might allow for more growth but if I remember right it didn’t make any difference.

 

[X-37B]

Completely agree. I have lost so many booger frags in my rocks that I won’t buy anything if it’s a single branch 1” frag or less anymore. I have had so many 1/2” nubs do nothing for long periods of time. In my Rubbermaid I didn’t buy any tiny frags with exception to a few things. I went out of my way to buy large chunks and pay extra for it. None of the larger pieces stalled or had slow growth. I really feel like these 1/2” nub fragments only go to make it harder for hobbiests to propagate and grow these corals and easier for the sellers to make money. How many people have bought these tiny nubs of the same coral over and over trying to get it to live? I dunno but I would bet if they got actual frag sized pieces they would only have to try once. I would urge newer reefers to only buy frags that are 1.5” or bigger. Or what most vendors or collectors call “mini colonies”. The mini colonies and mother colonies I see on the internet these days are straight up laughable.
Decent sized frags (1.5” with multiple “branches”) should become 3”-4” round colonies in one year and by three years the corals should be dinner plate sized. I have not seen this type of growth much these days except in reefers tanks who don’t mess with things and just let things go. These days I see so many people doing things that disrupt corals growth like cutting tiny corals, changing things to reach certain parameters, trying a bunch of products that are not needed what so ever, adding unneeded equipment, and rescaping or messing with the placements of corals and rocks. A lot of the nicest tanks you will see are the most simple systems out there.

Now back on topic... Once a coral gets to the point where it encrusts the base well and has a few branches it should take off. I think a lot of what people are seeing is this. Not new growth that was brought on by allowing the corals “time to rest”.
I thought I remember someone experimenting with turning off their halides for an hour or two in the middle of their light cycle with this same thought a long time ago. They figured it might allow for more growth but if I remember right it didn’t make any difference.

Agree!
I am done buying nubs.
Some take forever to grow.
My last nub was a WD and it was pencil eraser size.
I could have bought a nice 2" cut but it was upwards of $300 at lfs.
6 months later mine is silver dollar size and looking better than the 2".
This weekend I bought 2 maricultured Indo mini colonies for $80 each at lfs which is a good price in todays nub market lol.
Those same mini colonies would have been fragged into 20 pieces each at the other lfs for $30-40 a nub.
Such is the hobby I guess.
I also agree that alot of people change things way to much and many dont have a grasp of how to keep stability in their tank.
Example: when I got my 2 indo mini's a person had several set aside and was buying even more.
Started talking to the person and they did not even know what their alk was. Tanks over 4 years old?
Yea alot of my coral die but I just buy more.
Tank had bad cyano on all rocks.
That goes on more than most think imo.
Some of my best frags have been givin to my by fellow reefers.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Completely agree. I have lost so many booger frags in my rocks that I won’t buy anything if it’s a single branch 1” frag or less anymore. I have had so many 1/2” nubs do nothing for long periods of time. In my Rubbermaid I didn’t buy any tiny frags with exception to a few things. I went out of my way to buy large chunks and pay extra for it. None of the larger pieces stalled or had slow growth. I really feel like these 1/2” nub fragments only go to make it harder for hobbiests to propagate and grow these corals and easier for the sellers to make money. How many people have bought these tiny nubs of the same coral over and over trying to get it to live? I dunno but I would bet if they got actual frag sized pieces they would only have to try once. I would urge newer reefers to only buy frags that are 1.5” or bigger. Or what most vendors or collectors call “mini colonies”. The mini colonies and mother colonies I see on the internet these days are straight up laughable.
Decent sized frags (1.5” with multiple “branches”) should become 3”-4” round colonies in one year and by three years the corals should be dinner plate sized. I have not seen this type of growth much these days except in reefers tanks who don’t mess with things and just let things go. These days I see so many people doing things that disrupt corals growth like cutting tiny corals, changing things to reach certain parameters, trying a bunch of products that are not needed what so ever, adding unneeded equipment, and rescaping or messing with the placements of corals and rocks. A lot of the nicest tanks you will see are the most simple systems out there.

Now back on topic... Once a coral gets to the point where it encrusts the base well and has a few branches it should take off. I think a lot of what people are seeing is this. Not new growth that was brought on by allowing the corals “time to rest”.
I thought I remember someone experimenting with turning off their halides for an hour or two in the middle of their light cycle with this same thought a long time ago. They figured it might allow for more growth but if I remember right it didn’t make any difference.

I agree with everything except I’m seeing a significant weekly growth and color morphs now with the photo/par manipulation. I sent some pics to a very well known r2r legend and he was so impressed that he’s going to be trying it on one of his frag tanks that is tied to his main systems. He’ll be able to show the progress of identical pieces with the same conditions except the par manipulation. Should be fun no matter what happens.

 

[X-37B]

I agree with everything except I’m seeing a significant weekly growth and color morphs now with the photo/par manipulation. I sent some pics to a very well known r2r legend and he was so impressed that he’s going to be trying it on one of his frag tanks that is tied to his main systems. He’ll be able to show the progress of identical pieces with the same conditions except the par manipulation. Should be fun no matter what happens.

Cant wait to see that!

 

[melanotaenia]

So I have been following this thread and like @Chaswood79, I started to introduce some clouds to my schedules and have definitely noticed some increased growth; right now I only have it set to about 20% clouds during peak 6 hour LED period, but for the past couple of weeks, there has definitely been a difference in a positive way.

 

[Reef Dude]

Now you all have me thinking about trying this out. I have a halide/t5/reefbrite strip setup. The t5 and reefbrites add about 30% more par when compared to the halide alone. I’m thinking about turning the t5 and reefbrite led strips off for 1/2 hour a few times during the day to simulate the cloud coverage you all are talking about. I normally run the halide/t5/reefbrite led all “on” during the daytime.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Now you all have me thinking about trying this out. I have a halide/t5/reefbrite strip setup. The t5 and reefbrites add about 30% more par when compared to the halide alone. I’m thinking about turning the t5 and reefbrite led strips off for 1/2 hour a few times during the day to simulate the cloud coverage you all are talking about. I normally run the halide/t5/reefbrite led all “on” during the daytime.

So I know I said clouds from the beginning but really the objective is to give your corals a rest so they can continue to photosynthesize instead of going into a self defense/photo inhibition state. Here’s my blue print

Ok so all my peaks and valleys are 30 minutes
Meaning they drop down for 10 minutes, stay there for 10 minutes and ramp up for 10 minutes.

Lights turn on at 12:30 and ramp up to 375 par from 2:40pm-3:20
Drops to 330 from 3:20-3:50
Up to 400 from 3:50-4:20
Drops to 315 from 4:20-4:50
Up to 450 from 4:50-5:20
Drops to 300 from 5:20-5:50
Up to 450 at 5:50-6:30
Drops to 300 from 6:30-7:00
Up to 450 from 7:00-7:40
Down to 315 from 7:40-8:10
Up to 400 from 8:10-8:50
Down to 330 from 8:50-9:20
Up to 375 9:20-10:20 and ramps down to 0 from there until 12:30 am

 

[jda]

You all will need to remove the clouds and see if the growth slows back down again. So many times, the last thing that people do on their tanks made such a huge difference when it was more likely just a bit more maturity and time that did it. ...not always, but enough to not minimize the timing over the actual change.