Fin Rot in copper showing up on RedSea wrasse

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
26,092
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern California
Hey all.

Dealing with a velvet outbreak in my dt so all remaining fish have been transferred over to a hospital tank that has been maintaining .5 copper via hanna (cupramine).

HT is 90 with 60 gallons in. 4' long. Nothing but pvc and a makeshift pod hotel(to feed the mandarin)
I don't have any ammonia spikes and am changing 5 gallons out every 2


days for my own piece of mind.


Two days ago, I noticed a light colored vertical line developed on the rear fin of a red sea cleaner Wrasse.

Today it looks noticeably worse and the other fins now look tattered. My research has told me that this is possibly due to a bacterial issue.

I've got another week left of copper treatment and I was going to move to prazi treatment after. This is my first time dealing with a hospital tank and sick fish in general.

Here is a video of the fish albeit, not the best one.

Is there anything I should be doing Now, or preparing to do when the copper is complete?

Thanks for your assistance.
 
Aquarium Specialty - dry goods & marine livestock

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
11,149
Reaction score
11,918
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Hey all.

Dealing with a velvet outbreak in my dt so all remaining fish have been transferred over to a hospital tank that has been maintaining .5 copper via hanna (cupramine).

HT is 90 with 60 gallons in. 4' long. Nothing but pvc and a makeshift pod hotel(to feed the mandarin)
I don't have any ammonia spikes and am changing 5 gallons out every 2


days for my own piece of mind.


Two days ago, I noticed a light colored vertical line developed on the rear fin of a red sea cleaner Wrasse.

Today it looks noticeably worse and the other fins now look tattered. My research has told me that this is possibly due to a bacterial issue.

I've got another week left of copper treatment and I was going to move to prazi treatment after. This is my first time dealing with a hospital tank and sick fish in general.

Here is a video of the fish albeit, not the best one.

Is there anything I should be doing Now, or preparing to do when the copper is complete?

Thanks for your assistance.
1. Is your ammonia in the tank ok? High levels can look like 'fin rot'?
2. Are you copper levels ok?
3. Unfortunately I cant see the videos (the usual Mac OS problem)
4. One thing I would say - and perhaps ask @Jay Hemdal - is which antibiotic to recommend - that is safe with copper?
 
OP
Lost in the Sauce

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
26,092
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern California
Ammonia is 0 tested via Hanna
Copper is pegged to .5 as directed on instructions for cupramine.


Additional video and I've exported a few still frames here.
PXL_20210507_200914755_exported_1438.jpg
PXL_20210507_200914755_exported_11373.jpg

 

Jay Hemdal

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
7,559
Reaction score
6,945
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
If another fish didn't take a bite out of the wrasse's tail, then it is a bacterial infection. Treating with antibiotics would be the best course of action, perhaps use Kanaplex or Maracyn 2.

Is the cleaner wrasse feeding well for you? I thought they ate parasites as juveniles and then coral polyps as they mature. I acquired some about 30 years ago, but they wouldn't feed for me, and I haven't tried them again.

Jay
 
OP
Lost in the Sauce

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
26,092
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern California
Hey Jay,

There is a possibility of course that someone is nipping it but I have not been witness to that. In fact, none of my other fish have ever cared less about it.

The white vertical line on the trail concerns me as does mostt of its fins are looking freyed. Not just the back and bottom.

Would either of the antibiotics you mentioned be able to be used in conjunction with copper?

Are bacterial infections of this sort communicable? Do I need to plan to treat all of the fish in the hospital tank with it?

The cleaner Wrasse has never missed a meal for me. From the LFS was eating day one.

I've never heard that they eat coral as they mature. Something to look into for sure.
 
Champion Lighting & Supply

Jay Hemdal

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
7,559
Reaction score
6,945
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
Hey Jay,

There is a possibility of course that someone is nipping it but I have not been witness to that. In fact, none of my other fish have ever cared less about it.

The white vertical line on the trail concerns me as does mostt of its fins are looking freyed. Not just the back and bottom.

Would either of the antibiotics you mentioned be able to be used in conjunction with copper?

Are bacterial infections of this sort communicable? Do I need to plan to treat all of the fish in the hospital tank with it?

The cleaner Wrasse has never missed a meal for me. From the LFS was eating day one.

I've never heard that they eat coral as they mature. Something to look into for sure.
Maybe yours is a different species, do you know, is the genus of your fish Larabicus? That’s the one that typically doesn’t thrive without corals. There is a thread here about them.

You say the other fins are frayed also? I can’t see that, but that really makes me think some fish is picking on it...you may never see this as they may stop when you are watching them. One trick is to video them when you leave Jay

External bacterial infections are most often secondary, as a result of some injury, but they can also be a primary infection. They are rarely communicable to other fish. The vertical line is tough to say, maybe it is an injury? The two antibiotics are ok to use with copper, but my preference is to treat one meds at a time.
 
OP
Lost in the Sauce

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
26,092
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern California
Maybe yours is a different species, do you know, is the genus of your fish Larabicus? That’s the one that typically doesn’t thrive without corals. There is a thread here about them.

You say the other fins are frayed also? I can’t see that, but that really makes me think some fish is picking on it...you may never see this as they may stop when you are watching them. One trick is to video them when you leave Jay

External bacterial infections are most often secondary, as a result of some injury, but they can also be a primary infection. They are rarely communicable to other fish. The vertical line is tough to say, maybe it is an injury? The two antibiotics are ok to use with copper, but my preference is to treat one meds at a time.
A quick Google of the genus doesn't show anything that looks like mine. Mine is jet black with only one stripe per side high on the body that only travels about halfway to the tail. There is also a red marking behind the eye on each side.

I obviously cannot rule out bullying. All of these fish lived in a 120 and are now in much smaller quarters. It is certainty possible.

At this point would you recommend me keeping an eye on the fish and its health for the duration of the copper treatment, and reassess if it appears to get worse?
 

Jay Hemdal

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
7,559
Reaction score
6,945
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
A quick Google of the genus doesn't show anything that looks like mine. Mine is jet black with only one stripe per side high on the body that only travels about halfway to the tail. There is also a red marking behind the eye on each side.

I obviously cannot rule out bullying. All of these fish lived in a 120 and are now in much smaller quarters. It is certainty possible.

At this point would you recommend me keeping an eye on the fish and its health for the duration of the copper treatment, and reassess if it appears to get worse?
No, it looks to be in a bad way, I think it needs to be treated with antibiotics- can you move it to another tank?
Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
7,559
Reaction score
6,945
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
Well, another option would be antibiotic dips. They aren't as effective, but you basically put the fish in a bucket of tank water with a heater and air stone for 3 hours with antibiotics. Do this daily. I generally double or triple the dose for these 3 hours baths, but that is completely a guess on my part.

Jay
 
Top Shelf Aquatics
OP
Lost in the Sauce

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
26,092
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern California
Well, another option would be antibiotic dips. They aren't as effective, but you basically put the fish in a bucket of tank water with a heater and air stone for 3 hours with antibiotics. Do this daily. I generally double or triple the dose for these 3 hours baths, but that is completely a guess on my part.

Jay
Hi Jay, I'm going to go pick up another tank this morning and hopefully be able to source antibiotics locally.

You said above that these two antibiotics could be used in conjunction with copper but also that you prefer to treat with one thing at a time.
I was planning on setting up a small secondary hospital tank this morning and start administering The antibiotic if I can find it. I have established media ready for biofilter. I will catch the Red Sea clear and move it over to the smaller tank.

Should I continue to hold copper in this new tank or let the copper fade down and dose antibiotics per instructions on the label?

Thank you immensely for your assistance.
 

SaltyT

Wrasse obsessed!
View Badges
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
1,608
Reaction score
11,398
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Louis
Your wrasse has a case of mistaken identity, it’s a juvenile chiseltooth wrasse, pseudodax moluccanus. These guys get mislabeled as cleaner wrasses quite a bit as juvis. Your corals are safe :)
 
OP
Lost in the Sauce

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
26,092
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern California
Your wrasse has a case of mistaken identity, it’s a juvenile chiseltooth wrasse, pseudodax moluccanus. These guys get mislabeled as cleaner wrasses quite a bit as juvis. Your corals are safe :)
YOU Sir or madam are absolutely correct!

A quick Google search shows me this. Which also shows they developed that stripe on their tail as they mature..

Top left picture shows very close to what mine looks like healthy.

Thank you very much for that piece of info.
Screenshot_20210508-082431.png
 

SaltyT

Wrasse obsessed!
View Badges
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
1,608
Reaction score
11,398
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
St. Louis
There seems to be a lot of variability of color in the adults. Do certain fish of this type go more red and others more brown?
Its colors dull with age. Younger males are more red, older males are more browned out.
 

Jay Hemdal

7500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
7,559
Reaction score
6,945
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Dundee
I wondered about that! I thought perhaps this was a juvie 4 line, but wasn't sure...that would explain why it was eating so well. right?

Thanks,

Jay
 
OP
Lost in the Sauce

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
26,092
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern California
I wondered about that! I thought perhaps this was a juvie 4 line, but wasn't sure...that would explain why it was eating so well. right?

Thanks,

Jay
That would explain it. Looks like it's starting to transition to adult coloration.

I spent some time watching the tank and this fish specifically and the "webbing" for lack of knowing the correct term on all of the fins is definitely tattered. Even high on its back where fish don't really attack.

I'm on day 18 of copper at .5 cupramine. I'm going to start Kanaplex today, would like your opinion on if I should keep holding copper in the small tank I'll be dosing with antibiotics into with just this fish or discontinue using copper and medicated to instructions on the Kanaplex.

I don't want to mess up the copper treatment as Velvet took a big toll on the tank. Thank you
 
OP
Lost in the Sauce

Lost in the Sauce

BANGERANG!!!!
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2021
Messages
5,160
Reaction score
26,092
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Southern California
So a little update and request for opinions here. All fish are still in the hospital tank just waiting on 76 days which is July 4th.

I treated the tank with Kanaplex and the fins on this chiseltooth wrasse came back fully.

Today, my wife pointed out to me it is trying to be a Vlamingi. I wish.

It appears the center of the rear fin is rotted out. There is really no aggression in the tank outside of the dwarf angels chasing each other from time to time.
PXL_20210629_222714169.jpg
PXL_20210629_222753961.jpg
PXL_20210629_222754627.MP.jpg


Any ideas?
 

MnFish1

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Dec 28, 2016
Messages
11,149
Reaction score
11,918
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
So a little update and request for opinions here. All fish are still in the hospital tank just waiting on 76 days which is July 4th.

I treated the tank with Kanaplex and the fins on this chiseltooth wrasse came back fully.

Today, my wife pointed out to me it is trying to be a Vlamingi. I wish.

It appears the center of the rear fin is rotted out. There is really no aggression in the tank outside of the dwarf angels chasing each other from time to time.
PXL_20210629_222714169.jpg
PXL_20210629_222753961.jpg
PXL_20210629_222754627.MP.jpg


Any ideas?
@Jay Hemdal
I do not see 'fin rot' per se? When I have seen aggression - its often not constant - and if unless you're watching closely 24/7, it can be easy to miss
 
Maxout

What is your most favorite type of shrimp for your reef tank?

  • Peppermint Shrimp

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • Banded Coral Shrimp

    Votes: 8 6.7%
  • Snapping or Pistol Shrimp

    Votes: 14 11.8%
  • Harlequin Shrimp

    Votes: 10 8.4%
  • Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp

    Votes: 34 28.6%
  • Blood Red Fire Shrimp

    Votes: 28 23.5%
  • Sexy Anemone Shrimp

    Votes: 9 7.6%
  • Camel Shrimp

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • NO shrimp in my tank

    Votes: 12 10.1%
AF
Top