Waterbox Marine X 60.2 - Practicing Patience

biocube40

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The tank is wet, salty, and cycling!

After almost a day of making RODI water I had enough to fill the tank and sump. Interestingly, I measured only about 39 gallons out of the 54.5 volume advertised on Waterbox's website. Obviously the rock and sand take up some volume, but I wasn't expecting it to be that much. Either way, I just tripled the volume from my previous tank. I'll take it!

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After testing my existing vortech MP10, the magnetic hold seemed plenty strong even though the glass thickness is technically above the max tolerance for the MP10 so I went ahead and ordered a second. I also decided to go with MarcoRocks sand... I'm not sure about this decision since currently I have a temporary MJ600 powerhead in the tank and it's already blowing the sand everywhere, the addition of MP10s to the tank isn't likely to improve the situation. It's possible I may need to take it out and replace with crushed coral or something similar. We shall see.

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On to the cycle! I decided to give Brightwell's dry rock starter kit a shot. I dosed the ammonia/nutrients as directed and ended up with as close as I can tell 2ppm ammonia which is exactly what the instructions say it should be. Next I put the Microbacter Start XLM into the tank and the cycle is off! According to the directions, if all goes as planned the tank should be cycled in approximately a week. I'll be measuring ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate along the way and will keep the thread updated on the tank's progress.

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Excited to see how this goes, following along @Arcu2 thread as well. Happy to see MP10 works fine. Mine should come in a couple weeks.
 
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ajnies

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Day 7
Ammonia - 1ppm
Nitrite - 1ppm
Nitrate - 25ppm

After dosing the additional Microbacter XLM as instructed, I did not see the same decrease in ammonia I saw after dosing on day 4 since ammonia still appears to be around 1ppm. One would think with Nitrite going up, ammonia would be going down...

Also kind of wishing I'd been measuring nitrate all along just to see how it's been progressing. Anyway after measuring it on Day 7 it's at 25 which means the cycle is working, it just still has a little ways to go before the tank is ready.

and this is where Brightwell's instructions end...

Day 8
Ammonia - 1ppm
Nitrite - 1-2ppm. Hard to tell.

Day 9
Ammonia - 0.50ppm
Nitrite - 2ppm
Nitrate - 40ppm

Day 10
Ammonia: 0.25-0.50ppm
Nitrite: >2ppm doesn’t match color chart. Potentially higher.
Nitrate: 50ppm

So in summary, ammonia is headed down which is good, but nitrite is sky high. Based on the current trend it looks like I should hit ~0 ammonia in the next 2-3 days. Hopefully after the ammonia has been processed the Nitrite will begin to subside as well. Guessing I'll need at least another week to see any results.

There's also the nagging idea in the back of my head that I could just go buy a piece of live rock from the LFS and plunk it in the tank... patience, patience, patience!
 
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ajnies

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Day 11
Ammonia 0.0-0.25
Nitrite - 2-5ppm

Day 12
Ammonia - 0.0ppm or as close as the API test is going to show to 0
Nitrite - 2-5ppm
Nitrate - 75ppm

Finally, ammonia is at zero. Now onto the nitrite! Hopefully it starts to subside soon.
 
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ajnies

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'm sure this is getting repetitive, but just to keep a record going...

Day 13
Ammonia - 0.0ppm
Nitrite - 2-5ppm
Nitrate - 75 ppm

Day 14
Ammonia - 0.0ppm
Nitrite - 2-5ppm

I've found some interesting information regarding cycling and nitrite in reef tanks. Specifically, this article ( http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php ) points to the idea that we really don't need to worry about nitrite at all since the levels that would actually be considered toxic are hundreds or thousands of times higher than what we see in our tanks even during a cycle.

Also after reading this entire thread ( https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-unstick-any-seemingly-stuck-cycle.742202/ ) I'm debating giving the tank several large water changes, testing the parameters and seeing how things go. Either way, nothing is happening until this weekend.
 
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ajnies

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Continuing with the boring updates...

Day 15 - performed 15 gallon (~40%) water change in an attempt to bring down nitrites and nitrates.
Ammonia - 0.0
Nitrite - 2-5

Nitrite test kit coloration is worthless, it's impossible to really tell where the kit is reading. Nitrates did come down after the water change. I plan to perform 1-2 more to bring the nitrates closer to an acceptable level (aiming for 10-20 to start). Once I hit that point I'm going to test the waters with a snail and hermit. If all goes well fish will be in there soon.
 
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ajnies

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Day 15- Day 23 (today)
Ammonia - 0.0ppm
Nitrite - 2-5ppm

So..... after testing that the tank was processing ammonia, on Day 15 I introduced a hermit and a snail to see how it handled some life and began lightly feeding. After another 7 days I decided it was time to move the clowns over from the 20 gallon. The 20 is still up and running in case for some reason ammonia were to spike in the new tank. However after two days the clowns are fine and the ammonia is still reading 0.

If this holds, the 20 will be coming down next weekend and this tank will be fully up and running!

IMG_1671.jpeg

IMG_1677.jpeg
 
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ajnies

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So here we are, day 32 of Brightwell's "quick" cycle . Just tested the tank as I have been semi-regularly of late and ammonia still 0 and nitrites still 2-5 or higher. Clownfish have been in the tank a full two weeks and are completely fine as is the pistol shrimp I added last week. I've done 10g (~25%) water changes weekly for the past three weeks and that has done nothing for the nitrites.

The next step for this tank is to go lights on. However, before I do that I need to get these nitrites under control so I can get an accurate reading on my nitrates. I don't want to turn on the lights full blast with 100ppm nitrate and have a tank so thick with algae I can't see anything. So, begrudgingly (mostly because I had a bottle lying around) I'm sticking with Brightwell and adding Microbacter7 beginning today following a slightly lower dose than the recommended for "high nutrient" systems. Let's hope this works
 
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ajnies

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Wait are you saying you have 100ppm nitrates or just trying to avoid that?
It was a slight exaggeration. Last time I measured it came in somewhere between 50-75. However, I've read that elevated nitrite levels can interfere with nitrate test accuracy. So if this is true, I don't really know what my nitrate level is.
 

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50-75 is still pretty high but read the same about nitrites.

Your progress & timeframes almost mirror mine.. and it did take about 2x longer than advertised. I wonder if your kit is bad or maybe your cycle wasn’t complete if the nitrites never got to zero.

Might be a good question for Randy & those guys in the reef chemistry section.
 
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FORTY DAYS

It took forty days, but the tank is at 0 nitrite
IMG_1741.jpeg


Brightwell needs to seriously reconsider their advertising for the Start XLM bacteria. The bacteria seemed to work really well at processing the ammonia which was great. But it stalled dead and did nothing for the nitrite. Ironically, it was the tried and true Microbacter 7 that got this tank to where it needed to be. Almost immediately after beginning to dose MB7 I saw a reduction in nitrites and they were gone entirely after a week.

After seeing that nitrites had gone to 0ppm, I tested nitrate and it was at a very acceptable 2-5ppm

Now that all the levels are where they need to be, it's about time to turn the lights on and see what happens . Oh and also play around with some new gear!

IMG_1740.jpeg

IMG_1734.jpeg


Next on the todo list: some sort of lid, then a few more fish!
 
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Is it possible I am seeing specs of coraline starting to form already?! The lights have only been on for two days, but now that they are, I am seeing tiny (think tip of a pen) sized pink/purple specs on the rock and glass! I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'd be thrilled if that's actually what this is.

Anyway, I'm looking for some input on fish for this tank. Nothing will be happening for a few weeks yet, since I'm waiting for a lid to arrive from @Kraken Reef !!

However, in the meantime I'd like to get some feedback on my overall stocking list. Currently I'm thinking:
  • 2X clownfish
  • 1x Goby (either Yasha or Yellow watchmen) I've always had a soft spot for the watchmen since it was the first marine fish I bought when I started reefing 15 years ago.
  • Tailspot Blenny (Utilitarian to help eat algae off the rock and also a fish with a lot of personality from what I see online)
Here's where things it a little more complicated. I understand the limitations of a tank this size, but I really would love some fish that could form a small school. Obviously anthias are out and I'm not really a huge fan of cardinal fish. After researching, it seems like the fish below MIGHT be a good option.
  • 3X Blue Flasher Wrasse OR 3X Chalk Basslett.
That would leave me with 6 fish. Based on how I've set the filtration up on this tank I think it will be able to handle the bioload. I've also invested in a couple autofeeders to keep everyone well fed throughout the day. Additionally, I tried to select fish which inhabit different areas of the water column, so that they hopefully don't bother one another as much.

Looking for any feedback, positive or negative!
 

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Is it possible I am seeing specs of coraline starting to form already?! The lights have only been on for two days, but now that they are, I am seeing tiny (think tip of a pen) sized pink/purple specs on the rock and glass! I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'd be thrilled if that's actually what this is.

Anyway, I'm looking for some input on fish for this tank. Nothing will be happening for a few weeks yet, since I'm waiting for a lid to arrive from @Kraken Reef !!

However, in the meantime I'd like to get some feedback on my overall stocking list. Currently I'm thinking:
  • 2X clownfish
  • 1x Goby (either Yasha or Yellow watchmen) I've always had a soft spot for the watchmen since it was the first marine fish I bought when I started reefing 15 years ago.
  • Tailspot Blenny (Utilitarian to help eat algae off the rock and also a fish with a lot of personality from what I see online)
Here's where things it a little more complicated. I understand the limitations of a tank this size, but I really would love some fish that could form a small school. Obviously anthias are out and I'm not really a huge fan of cardinal fish. After researching, it seems like the fish below MIGHT be a good option.
  • 3X Blue Flasher Wrasse OR 3X Chalk Basslett.
That would leave me with 6 fish. Based on how I've set the filtration up on this tank I think it will be able to handle the bioload. I've also invested in a couple autofeeders to keep everyone well fed throughout the day. Additionally, I tried to select fish which inhabit different areas of the water column, so that they hopefully don't bother one another as much.

Looking for any feedback, positive or negative!
In my research, I think this starting lineup would be well suited to the size of our display with the two clowns, goby and tailspot blenny.

Between the two, I would personally choose the Blue Flasher Wrasse as they seem to be slightly less apt to prey on inverts and your CUC. At a max size of 3”, you probably wouldn’t have issues with either given your filtration setup.

I, myself am also not a mega fan of the look of cardinal fish, and am debating whether or not to stock with a different “grouping” variety - 2x Zebra Barred Dartfish, or 3x Blue Flasher Wrasse.
 

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Great start! Following along.
I have a Fluval 13.5 that I'm upgrading to a Reefer 170 after Waterbox told me the MarineX 60.2 was out of stock indefinitely. Might steal some ideas from here, looks great so far!
 

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Great start! Following along.
I have a Fluval 13.5 that I'm upgrading to a Reefer 170 after Waterbox told me the MarineX 60.2 was out of stock indefinitely. Might steal some ideas from here, looks great so far!
I almost made the jump from my 60.2, I ordered it at the beginning of the year and talked to them this afternoon, they currently show that the order coming in next week *should* contain my tank, but if it doesn't I'll most likely be cancelling, and I'm not sure if I'll be going with a RSR170 or if I'll go to an IM tank. I've got the last bit of my gear coming in the mail next week so fingers crossed I don't get too impatient and buy another 40 breeder.
 

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FORTY DAYS

It took forty days, but the tank is at 0 nitrite
IMG_1741.jpeg


Brightwell needs to seriously reconsider their advertising for the Start XLM bacteria. The bacteria seemed to work really well at processing the ammonia which was great. But it stalled dead and did nothing for the nitrite. Ironically, it was the tried and true Microbacter 7 that got this tank to where it needed to be. Almost immediately after beginning to dose MB7 I saw a reduction in nitrites and they were gone entirely after a week.

After seeing that nitrites had gone to 0ppm, I tested nitrate and it was at a very acceptable 2-5ppm

Now that all the levels are where they need to be, it's about time to turn the lights on and see what happens . Oh and also play around with some new gear!

IMG_1740.jpeg

IMG_1734.jpeg


Next on the todo list: some sort of lid, then a few more fish!
I used Dr. Tims and I am experiencing the same thing you were with the nitrites. I am at like day 28 or something. If I side ammonia it goes to 0ppm in a day, but the nitrites stay at 1.5 to 2ppm, and I also get the ridiculous nitrate numbers.

Thinking about getting some Microbacter 7.
 
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I used Dr. Tims and I am experiencing the same thing you were with the nitrites. I am at like day 28 or something. If I side ammonia it goes to 0ppm in a day, but the nitrites stay at 1.5 to 2ppm, and I also get the ridiculous nitrate numbers.

Thinking about getting some Microbacter 7.
I would absolutely start adding some MB7! You'll see a reduction in nitrites and nitrates within a day or so. I also added AlgaeBarn pods around the same time I did that. I can't say for sure that this made a huge difference, but it surely didnt' hurt the tank's biodiverity.

After using the "Quick Start" program, I definitely have some issues with it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I don't know that the length of my cycle created a "stronger" cycle for my tank in any way. My ugly brown phase has been relatively light, but I've also been dosing the MB Clean on an as needed basis.
 
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The tank is officially one year old! However, I'm still searching for stability. Dry rock and dry sand to start has to be one of the most difficult paths to a reef I've ever taken.

Looking back, the ability to construct a rock structure that matches exactly what I had in my mind was great, but I don't think the trade off of constant stability issues for the past twelve months is worth it. However, I'm hoping things are starting to level out. I'm still dealing with a but of stubborn cyano on the sandbed, but even that is beginning to fade. I also recently dealt with a 2-part precipitation issue. This was likely my fault. I was running a CO2 reactor and I believe the pH got too high and created the conditions for the 2-part to begin to precipitate. I removed the reactor and things have started to stabilize.

The tanks inhabitants are all still there, but I'm thinking more and more about adding a few more fish. There's currently 5 fish in the tank, but they're all relatively shy. I'd love to add a small school of cardinals, chromis, or flasher wrasse to give the water column some regular activity. I also have a few tester corals in the tank which seem to be doing relatively well considering the recent precipitation issue I described. I'm planning to order a few additional pieces after the Alk and Ca levels stabilize for a few weeks.

IMG_2737.JPG


IMG_2738.JPG


IMG_2739.JPG


IMG_2740.JPG


IMG_2741.JPG
 
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It's been a long time since I've updated this thread... partially because the tank continues to chug along, but only with partial success. Over the past 22 months I've had no fish deaths (KNOCK ON WOOD) which has been great! However, coral has been an entirely different story. I've had short term success with various LPS corals including hammers, lobos, duncans, trumpets, and blastos, but over time they all seem to meet an untimely demise. I've been able to dial in dosing of alk, ca, and mg to levels I would deem normal for a tank with a large amount of coralline and don't seem to be getting mass amounts of precipitation any longer.

Here's a recent FTS and the lone survivors.
IMG_3226.thumb.JPG.375afee7218c2b1a40913c63a6a79561.JPGIMG_3229.thumb.JPG.8472e4921e72bab8b0fd83453a6b45a8.JPG

About three months ago I took the skimmer completely offline. Prior to this, no matter what I tried, I couldn't eliminate cyano and dinos and I thought the skimmer might be stripping out too many nutrients. Since then, the tank has transitioned from cyano and dino outbreaks to a medium-sized hair algae outbreak which would make sense if there's more available nutrients in the water column.

The grand plan for this tank absolutely still includes corals, but I want to get the hair algae under control first. Because some of the hair algae was ID'd as bryopsis, I decided to give ReefHD Fluconazole a try. I left it in the tank for 3 weeks and It worked wonderfully on the bryopsis and even put a dent in the standard hair algae. However, once it was removed from the system the hair algae returned to previous levels. I tried another 3 week treatment, but this time it did not seem to affect the standard hair algae. During the large 30% waterchange post-fluconazole, I discovered the disaster below...

IMG_3282.thumb.JPEG.c1ceeb9a96b3decf1f38e69cf4842603.JPEG

This is my probe holder from the sump. It was positioned juuuuust above the waterline and the rusting magnet was on the inside where it wasn't at all noticeable. I don't know how long it's been like this, but based on the amount of rust I'd have to guess it's been several months at least! This gives me some hope that maybe I've figured out what's been killing the corals. Although I have run several ICP tests over this time period and none of the levels have been significantly off.

Since I had just done a 30% waterchange, I felt confident that the best course of action was to remove the magnet, toss in fresh carbon along with some Brightwell Purit to hopefully pull any heavy metals out of the water column. I plan to let that run for a few weeks and send in another ICP.

In another attempt to diagnose the mystery coral deaths in the tank, I finally rented a PAR meter and took readings throughout the tank. I should have done this immediately after setting the tank up. I had been running the A360X at 80% intensity. Come to find out that the levels (even) at 100% intensity are lower than I expected.

Red = 8 inches off the water
Yellow = 7 inches off the water

IMG_3264.thumb.jpeg.23dc207f60c1f80662785392ce1ca84d.jpeg

Both height settings give me levels that should sustain LPS. So now the light will be set to 100% intensity going forward.

I think my next move is to introduce several macro algae species into the tank. I haven't decided if this means putting them in a refugium in the sump or ornamentally within the display. My hope is that by adding some macros I can gently pull the excess nutrients feeding the hair algae out of the water column without stripping the levels to 0 as I was with the skimmer. I just need algae barn to get some of their clean macros back in stock!

Anyway, if you made it to the end of this long update, thanks for reading! Here's hoping that the next few months are smoother than the last few. As always, I'll just keep with my mantra: Patience, patience, patience.
 

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