First 2 Clowns Died

LauriesaurusRex

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Hello. It’s been a rough couple days.
We set up our first saltwater tank a couple weeks ago. On January 16th we added Fritz Turbo Start and dosed with Dr Tims ammonia and started testing. I tested daily, watching the ammonia drop, nitrites spike and drop, nitrates spike and then drop. On Saturday the 23rd, we added a second bottle upon advice of our LFS because ammonia was at 0 but there were still nitrites and nitrates that hadn’t budged in 3-4 days. They suggested that the cycle may be stalled because the bottle may have warmed during transport, causing issues with the bacteria. We added 2 clowns that evening after adding the 2nd bottle, following the bottle directions that fish could be added immediately. There were still nitrites and nitrates, but assuming the second bottle of bacteria would kick in and reduce them quickly. Another person on this forum posted about how nitrites are far less toxic to marine fish than freshwater, so I thought it would all be OK.

The next day, one of the clowns had died, in less than 12 hours. It didn’t seem to adjust well- it swam hard against the current since we put him in. We chalked it up to a problem with the fish, and purchased a 2nd clown to replace him.

Today, the 2nd initial clown died. On the sand, barely moving, breathing heavily. Had been acting normally until this afternoon. We have the remaining clown we purchased on the 24th still alive, acting normal from what I can tell, but he’s hiding in a cave and not coming out.

Results of testing with Red Sea test kit and digital Hanna salinity tester are below and information on our setup is below. Any idea what’s wrong, or what we’re missing? We have a friend who has had reef tanks for 20+ years and he says we did everything by the book. I’m sad and frustrated, because we just sank a lot of money into setup and have been researching and planning for over 4 months. I knew it wouldn’t be easy, but I’ve had fresh water tanks my whole life and was expecting to not fail miserably right out of the gate. We are not going to add any more fish until we have this figured out. any advice you can give would be appreciated.

Test Results from 1/25:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: .05
Salinity: 34.6
RODI water, 0 TDS when tested

Setup:
Live sand, dry rock, hw marinemix salt, Red Sea reefer 425XL tank

Fish were acclimated by drip method in a clean bucket, allowing water to double over the course of 30 min after floating the bag for 15 min. We did not quarantine, we talked in depth with the LFS about their medication process and how well they care for and watch their fish. I’ve bought fresh water fish from them for over a year and never had any issues.
 

Sam816

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any pictures?
any spots/ lesions/ red areas on the fish?
did you do freshwater dip for flukes?
check for stray current in the water?
possibility of some aerosol based chemical spray getting sprayed around the tank?
how are you achieving surface agitation/gas exchange?
 

CubsFan

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Great info. Sounds like a clown should be able to survive the conditions. People used to use them to cycle tanks. They’re pretty tough. I’m wondering about ammonia even though you’re showing zero.

Also possible the fish weren’t in good condition to begin with, but that doesn’t seem likely from what you said about the vendor.

Also thinking about oxygen exchange. Is your tank covered?
 

Salty Rambler

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Could be fish that had a problem before being added. Some questions I would consider: What is your pH level? Are you getting enough oxygen exchange in the tank? Did you use RODI or tap water in the tank? Do you have any Prime (or similar) that you could try adding to the tank?
 

Hugh Mann

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You say you didn't quarantine, and that your lfs does a good job on their end, though the behavior of your clowns does make me think velvet is a possibility. Quarantines can fail, or the fish can be infected post quarantine by new arrivals. Some of the key signs of velvet are swimming into flow and sensitivity to light. Clowns, due to their thick slime coats will often not show the otherwise telltale spots. Not one of my fish showed the spots when I had it, except the converted freshwater mollies. So I would consider it, however remote, a possibility.

The only other things I can think of have already been stated, toxic exposure, lack of oxygen, ect.

I do hope you figure out this issue, and keep us posted.
 

Jekyl

GSP is the devil and clowns are bad pets
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Another thing for the future is always ask your LFS to feed the fish before you buy them.
 

brandon429

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what effect does adding bottles of aerobes have on 02

they compete for oxygen for sure

the pet store means well but they lead on a false chase. we covered in the stuck cycle thread that nitrite never matters and isn't to be reacted to in reefing as it causes wrong purchases and chemical soups eventually.

agreed disease is a possibility, but in that fast of a decline o2 might be at play/irritants not sure. post a current full tank pic of the display, do you have snails or other animals in it now

Im amazed the ammonia reads zero normally a 2 is reported and 100% of the readers agree the tank was not cycled in this case nitrite caused the mislead.
 
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LauriesaurusRex

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Hows the tank going ?
Better. We let it sit empty for 2 additional weeks until the nitrites were at 0 for a week. Added a royal gramma and engineer goby on Sunday and everyone is still alive and well. I think the cycle just wasn’t done when we added the clowns initially.
 
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LauriesaurusRex

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You say you didn't quarantine, and that your lfs does a good job on their end, though the behavior of your clowns does make me think velvet is a possibility. Quarantines can fail, or the fish can be infected post quarantine by new arrivals. Some of the key signs of velvet are swimming into flow and sensitivity to light. Clowns, due to their thick slime coats will often not show the otherwise telltale spots. Not one of my fish showed the spots when I had it, except the converted freshwater mollies. So I would consider it, however remote, a possibility.

The only other things I can think of have already been stated, toxic exposure, lack of oxygen, ect.

I do hope you figure out this issue, and keep us posted.
Thanks. I don’t want to jinx it, but the fish we added on Sunday are alive and well. We just tried adding fish too soon
 
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LauriesaurusRex

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what effect does adding bottles of aerobes have on 02

they compete for oxygen for sure

the pet store means well but they lead on a false chase. we covered in the stuck cycle thread that nitrite never matters and isn't to be reacted to in reefing as it causes wrong purchases and chemical soups eventually.

agreed disease is a possibility, but in that fast of a decline o2 might be at play/irritants not sure. post a current full tank pic of the display, do you have snails or other animals in it now

Im amazed the ammonia reads zero normally a 2 is reported and 100% of the readers agree the tank was not cycled in this case nitrite caused the mislead.
Sorry friend, but I think nitrites and an incomplete cycle were the culprits here. Fish died when there were measurable nitrites, however, when we added fish after nitrites were at zero, they have survived and are doing well. Even if you feel nitrites are not as toxic to marine fish, there may be other factors that indicate a tank is not ready support fish.
 
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